XP booting direct from USB Options

[jaclaz]

@kachoperro

Hmm, the "4096" seen on lockiteasy does not mean much, the "preoccupying thing is the "0 byte" in left corner.

However, the fact that the recoverdisk.exe cannot find the device is the real problem, maybe lockiteasy has given a "false" report about being an OTi controller.....

At this point, I am sorry but I think I cannot help you further, a last chance is trying "blindly" some "production tool", here I give you some links I found, but helping you using them is way off my capabilities, so you are "on your own":

OTi Production tool (version 2.3.49.1):
http://www.nqa.cn/blog/article.asp?id=71
http://www.nqa.cn/blog/uploads/200511/24_113454_ptmd.rar

I-create i5062-ZD and i5068-ZD (possibly more)
PortFree Production tool v3.27:
http://www.everythingusb.com/forums/showth...1&threadid=5442
(you will have to register to download, read the entire thread, as there is some interesting info about flashdrives and more programs)


@sfiorito
It is possible, with the RIGHT utility, to actually CHANGE the setting for Removable/Fixed on the CONTROLLER of the USB stick, this might be what you need.

As a VERY EARLY pre-release, have a look at the docs you can find here:
http://home.graffiti.net/jaclaz:graffiti.n...T/USBstick3.zip

If you have a different controller/stick, see link above to the everythingUSB forum...

@ALL
please, do NOT count on it too much but a more complete version should (could possibly) be available in next week, I will post the definitive link on this thread:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=14292

jaclaz

P.S.: I just found this NICE article:
http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2549
a MUST read!
(...and I was wrong again, it seems like SANDISK makes their OWN controllers )

[Kachoperro]

@jaclaz

At this point, I am sorry but I think I cannot help you further, a last chance is trying "blindly" some "production tool", here I give you some links I found, but helping you using them is way off my capabilities, so you are "on your own":

Don't worry, you has facilitated me very valuable information. With respect to the last tools that you indicate to me, I will prove them tomorrow; today, in Spain is "el dia de los Reyes Magos" (the wishes day, I think), and I am like a child with my gifts

I will inform to you into the results.

Many, many thanks. Best regards,

Kachoperro.

[mkiaer]

Hi Dietmar (and everybody else),

I'm one of those passive forum members who sometimes sits in the background and not disturbing anyone, but this subject I just had to comment on.

I just learned yesterday about this subject from internal Microsoft people, and have just gone through all 19 pages (just quickly). Here’s the story in short. I’ve been working on the exact same issue for the last 9 months and was able to find a working solution about 6 months ago. Unfortunately, I wasn’t allowed to publish my findings due to some legal restrictions from Microsoft and the customer I’m working for. And believe me, I’m a Microsoft Security MVP, so being able to share anything with the rest of the community including my own (IT-experts.dk) would be the first thing I would do.

Anyway I don’t want to take credit away from all of you, especially you Dietmar . You have done a great job and deserve all the attention/credit you can get, but since I found this subject on this community, the legal restrictions I was bound to from Microsoft and my customer, no longer apply. I’ve therefore decided that I’ll share my 2 cents on this subject, so that we can all benefit. Now it’s late here in Denmark and I need to get some sleep and need to read more thoroughly through all of the postings and your tutorial later this weekend. But here you have a few quick inputs from my solution (in random), where it seems that your solution will deliver most (probably all) of the pointers below?

o When I did a quick check, it seems that your solution and my solution are almost identical. The difference is that I only do registry and .INF file changes. I need to look more into where we differ in our solution, but I think you do some cool stuff, that I’ve been trying to solve for a while.

o My solution supports the following systems: Windows 2000, XP, Windows Server 2003 and Vista (last tested on build 5290). Servicepacks and updates makes no difference and everything works without any limitations or problems. I haven’t tried Windows XP embedded.

o My solution will work on most USB devices, however I found that the controller for the USB device is very important in terms of stability and reliability. My keys have been working for a little over 6 months and they are still working great. I’ll post later on why that is.

o My solution will support moving internal HD to external USB connections for troubleshooting. All it requires are 4 registry changes.

o My solutions installs and works with USB devices, just as they were internal hard drives, i.e. you can deploy using RIS, GHOST, unattended etc.

o I’m able to deploy my solutions to other medias, such as SD-cards, CF-cards etc. Right now, my Microsoft Media Center 2005 runs on a 4GB SD-card (133mhz) on a Shuttle computer, where my SATA hard disk is used only for storage. It’s fast and very quiet.

o My research regarding Windows USB boot, is that it’s almost 5 timers faster than a hard disk (depending on the USB key of course). And for notebooks, there is a nice side effect where the battery will last 45 minutes longer (if you don’t have the internal HD installed).

o If you need to use this in a commercial environment, then security is a big deal. I could go on for days with this, but a quick pointer is that if you want to encrypt the entire USB key and use a USB token for 2-factor authentication (Aladdin or iKey etc.) then it will not work with a bootable USB device. I’ll explain some other time why that is.

o Many USB 2.0 devices have a unique serial number attached to their device ID. This serial number can give you some problems if you try to clone the key to another USB key of same make, since they’re tattooed in registry. You may experience BSOD 7B.

o Depending on how the keys behave in Windows, you may see some strange sporadic behaviour. For example that Windows Update wont install certain hotfixes and give you a strange error number. My solution is to make sure that the USB keys behave like a non-removable drive, but your additional registry changes may solve that problem. I will have to look more into this, when I try your solution

I could go on, but it’s late and I need to get some sleep. I’ll be back late Saturday evening with more info and sharing.

Brgds,
Martin Kiaer
Microsoft MVP:Security

[Sam Ontario]

Great! I am lucky to discover this website.

I think I need to read thru and re-read these 20 pages to acquire some basic knowledge in order to make a USB boot stick. I am not a computer programming guy and I take interests in computers and Windows are always a mistery to me.

I got Dietmar's idea but read thru his Tutorial, I think I understand/comprehend less than 10% of what he said. I know the Tutorial is meant for you experts here. With my present ability, I think I need at least a month to do such a project. Will Dietmar expand his explanation to make his tutorial plainer, easier to understand for common people with an interest in computers. Or I should not make such a request to just read at the background.

Thanks.

[sisal]

Hi Dietmar

the intel chipset inf installer installs the whole usb system into critical device database.
all pci#vid&pid of the usb controller and hubs..

this way its perfectly ok to boot with the original sp2 usb*.sys, original ntdetect etc.

give it a try

sis

[Dietmar]

Hi Sisal,

this is very interesting.

Can you please describe exact, what you have done?

Do you use the whole inf chipsetdrivers also for the motherboard and so on?

Which name hast your motherboard and which version of the Intel chipsetdriver do you install?

If I can reproduce this, this is standing at once in my Tutorial.

I will make Tutorial Version 4, in which I also describe, how to install Windows Embedded SP1 and SP2 on a USB device (means running FBA). This included a install on a USB stick. I got one with internet on 60 MB!

I also will add versions typical special installation for NT4 (?), Windows 2000, XP SP1, SP2, Windows Media,
Windows Server 2003 and Windows Vista.

The one and only thing, I cant do until now with USB boot, is to install XP direct on the USB device.
But I am working on this...hihihihihi .

Nice to hear from you

Dietmar

PS: mkiaer, please share your knowledge with us!

Hi all,

in the new c't, a german computermagazine also avaible in the netherlands, is my article about
booting XP from USB.
I dont know, whether they found something new, because I will get the magazine
first on Monday. But I thing the knowledge here in the forum is much better.

Dietmar

[Dietmar]

Hi Sam Ontario,

I do my best, to make the Tutorial Version 4 easier than before.

But it is a very hard job to write a good Tutorial.

So I need the help of you all, to make the steps easier, meaning using scripts or new ideas .

Nice to hear from you

Dietmar

[sisal]

Hi Dietmar

first, i installed winxp sp1 pro on a intel d945gnt, changed registry and inf settings, moved to the usb harddisk and booted -> all ok.

then i installed the mainboard inf driver for 945gnt (7.1.xxx or something.. the latest you can get at intel.com for this mobo) which added alot of things to the critical device database - while being on usb.

then i installed sp2, which replaced all usb*.sys, ntldr, ntdetect etc, it still booted. reapplyed your otto.reg (with my hd case's vid/pid), got a bsod 7b. added back some of the new entrys from the inf installer, everything worked fine.

it also works on a intel 915g laptop, which has fairly the same usb controller.

some later today, i will test it on a laptop with ati mainboard and report back
when i'm at work next week, i will also try to figure out which entrys are needed and why they are.

sis

[Dietmar]

Hi sisal,

can you say, which entries you added to the CriticalDeviceDatabase
after you replaced it with otto.reg?

This is important for a new generic CriticalDeviceDatabase.

Thanks for your help

Dietmar

[Sam Ontario]

Dietmar,

My family members have 2 laptops and a dektop. One laptop with XP home SP2 and one laptop with XP Home SP1 and the desktop has only XP Pro. The desktop has a wireless router and connected to a cable modem for internet surfing. The laptops share the internet. I have installed Norton System Works Professional 2003 on all of them to make a backup copy of the current windows. I purchased a 250GB USB HDD for the desktop. My questions are:

1. Can your tutorial work with my desktop, i.e. no SP1 and no SP2.

2. If I upgrade my desktop with XP Pro SP2 CDROM, i.e. not a full version of XP Pro SP2 just the upgrade SP2 CDROM, Norton Ghost the desktop HDD, then swap out the 40GB HDD with the USB HDD, ghost image back to the new 250GB HDD, can I start with the 40GB USB drive. I damaged the original recovery XP Pro CD. If yes, what files on the 40GB HDD should I add or delete in order to make an XP USB bootable.

Thanks for any help.


Sam

[Dietmar]

Hi Roland,

I have a notebook Blockbuster from Gericom, which shows the same behavior.

But I think, that also there USB boot is possible: You must make a superfloppy
format of your USB device, because a USB Floppy is recogniced. But there remains a
problem. There is no normal arcpath on a superfloppy, because it has no partitionstable.

I must look, whether it has any arcpath at all. If yes, this problem can easy be overcome.

jaclaz says it may work, so I do not give up on this.

Because this means, all computers with an USB entry in bootmenue can boot from USB.

Nice to hear from you
Dietmar


Hi Sam Ontario,

XP without SP1 or SP2 has no USB2.0 support. I dont know, whether you can update XP
to SP1 or SP2 via Microsoft update.

USB1.1 will work there, but it is slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Another possibility is, to get USB 2.0 drivers from the vendor of your motherboard or you use the generic
USB 2.0 drivers from Microsoft. I think, this will work.

Nice to hear from you
Dietmar

[Sam Ontario]

@Dietmar,

My desktop is being upgraded to XP Pro SP2. I will wait for your 4th version tutorial. Will it take a while to have it posted here? Any tentative date?

Sam

[Dietmar]

Hi Sam Ontario,

I think that it will last about 1 month.

So try Tutorial Version 3.
It isnt to difficult, but you need a lot of time.

Dietmar

[Dietmar]

Hi all,

here is so much traffic on this side today,
because my article in the german computermagazine C't about USB boot is there.

So I say

Herzlich willkommen und gutes Gelingen wünscht Euch

Dietmar

[Sam Ontario]

@Dietmar,

My 40GB HDD with Windows XP Pro SP2 (XPPSP2) is now in the USB enclosure and I am trying to make it USB bootable to all my laptops. I don't want to freshly install again to the 40GB. In your Tutorial 3 (T3), pls elaborate the following:

1) I have copied ntdetect.com, ntldr, and copied your codes to boot.ini to root directory of the 40GB HDD.
2) The 40GB USB HDD is already installed with XPPSP2.
3) How do I disable pagefile on the 40GB USB HDD?
4) I connect the 40GB USB HDD to the desktop
5) I don't need to do the copy & paste, since its already installed with XPPSP2.

6.) Change on the USB device the ntdetect.com against the modified one.
It is not needed on all computers, but it is sure.
I don't have the modified ntdetect.com file so I leave it intact.

If you have installed XP SP2, change there also all the USB drivers usb*hci.sys, usbhub.sys,
usbstor.sys, usbport.sys and usbd.sys in USB device folder WINDOWS\system32\drivers
against them from XP SP1.
I did not do anything since the USB XPPSP2 has already the updated files

7.) Make a folder named Rettung in config folder on the USB XP and copy Registry hive SYSTEM into.
From BartPE (or other XP) LOAD Registry hive SYSTEM of the XP on the USB device and name it otto .

I made the Rettung folder in my USB XPPSP2 under the Cofig folder. How do I copy Registry hive SYSTEM ?
I am stuck here, please elaborate here.

Sam

[Dietmar]

Hi Sam,

you can make a backup of the registry hive SYSTEM from WINDOWS\system32\config

from another XP or with BartPE.
If you put your XP into the USB case, you have to take another to do this.

Nice to hear from you
Dietmar

[sisal]

I can't believe it

i took my support laptop, winxp sp2, entered the harddisk vid&pid into criticaldevicedatabase, changed services to start0 and bootet off usb (so after 4 registry entrys changed)

the strange thing: on this laptop, in the enum\usb and enum\usbstor, there are about 200-300 devices registered, several dozen other drivers, and it's primary bootpartition is linux.

so it boots partition 3/lilo, lilo boots partition 1/ntldr, and ntldr boots up winxp SP2
it works like it does'nt know that it now runs on usb

i think tomorrow there will be some time to search the right critical device database assignments..

good night an alle c't leser

sis

edit: primary i took this laptop to setup another testing winxp and w2k3 on the internal ide while still being able to access my support tools

[Sam Ontario]

Hi Sam,

you can make a backup of the registry hive SYSTEM from WINDOWS\system32\config

from another XP or with BartPE.
If you put your XP into the USB case, you have to take another to do this.

Nice to hear from you
Dietmar

I have already restored XPPSP2 to the 250GB HDD with Norton Ghost and it is now installed inside my desktop. Since I have the XPPSP2 already in my USB HDD, do I need to do anything in order to pass thru your T3 step 7)?

How do I LOAD Registry hive SYSTEM of the XP on the USB device and name it otto ? I am comprehension challenged here, pls elaborate with details, thanks.

[Dietmar]

Hi Sam,

I try to explain this.

Click Start on the external XP (or the fresh XP doesnt matter), type regedit in.
Cursor in the Registry on HKLM, so that HKLM is lighted.
Left side above on top menue klick load hive.

Load hive SYSTEM from the XP on the USB device, (under WINDOWS\system32\config\...)
Click therefor in USB XP on SYSTEM and click open.

Then arrives a long field, in which you type the word otto.
Now the hive SYSTEM from the XP on the USB device can be seen as otto in the registry of the external XP under HKLM.

After you did all the changes in otto as Tutorial 3 says to you, click right on otto and EXPORT otto
back to the USB device to WINDOWS\system32\config
with name otto as Registrierungsstrukturdateien (in german) (the 2. ENTRY, not FIRST one).

To delete otto from the registry of the external XP close this registry and after reopen it.
Mark otto in this registry and left side above on top menue click unload hive. Now otto is gone.
Now you have to delete hive SYSTEM on the USB XP, and rename otto there to SYSTEM. Thats all.

Oh my, here I see, that English isnt my motherlanguage (hihi)

Nice to hear from you
Dietmar

[Former_miki2_post]

Hi all!

I followed the tutorial3 and I can boot from USB on the same PC where I installed the WinXP, but I cant boot it on any another PC. It stuck on mup.sys.
I know that is a problem of different hardware/drivers, that are loaded at start, but I cant solve this issue.
I tried to disable mup.sys and other boot time drivers, but its the same.

Is there any way to set the USB installation of WinXP that it boots to a generic hal, chipset, drivers environment?