Bootable USB HD that can boot up ANY computer! Options

[jaclaz]

Although they all work, they give different results on different sticks. It would be useful to understand in what they differ to take the best out of them and put together an "universal" XP formatting approach.
I do not have myself the necessary level of expertise, but others have it, joined to the capability of clarifying complex things (jaclaz are you there?).
May be others reading this thread might be ready to experiment.

Yep, PRESENT!

OK, following the results of checking the error that Dietmar had in the other thread about the different bootsectors, I already posted my new finding about USB formatting (pardon me the BOLD CAPITAL):
IF WIN2K/XP FINDS A VALID MBR ON A MASS STORAGE DEVICE, IT "TRUSTS" THIS MBR'S CONTENTS AND FORMATS ACCORDINGLY!

So (in the case of one big partition, as usual on USB sticks) all you need is a valid MBR, then you can format the stick "normally" under disk management, of course the boot sector will invoke NTLDR.

I already posted a (actually rather complex) howto here:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...4181&st=894
The (good) news is that I wrote a small batch file to "create" an MBR for a stick from the one already on your Hard Disk(s) or on a HD image, this effectively gets rid of the "problems" with non english versions of Win2K/XP; get it here:

http://home.graffiti.net/jaclaz:graffiti.n...BXP/MakeMBR.zip
It needs the DSFOK package, downloadable from here:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nulifetv/freezip/freeware/

(you need just the dsfo.exe and dsfi.exe files from the package in the same directory of the MakeMBR.cmd and USBstick.dat)

No instruction is needed, it should be self-explanatory, only (rather obvious) need is to unplug and re-plug USB device before attempting formatting with Disk Management.

With reference to the .xls worksheet referenced in the above said post, and downloadable here:
http://home.graffiti.net/jaclaz:graffiti.n.../PTtableUSB.zip
I put for the moment just the "safe" table of formats, not the MAXimum capacity one.

The settings have already been tested by me for sizes 128MB and 512MB, theoretically it should work for all other sizes.

As far as I could see there are no problems in using it, just to make it a little bit safe, writing a MBR to \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE0 (the boot drive) is only possible with command line parameters and an additional "Force0" parameter.

If anyone is willing to test it for:
256MB
1GB
2GB
and report, I would be grateful and go on making another .dat file with the MAXimum settings.

As always, bug reports, suggestions, comments and whatever are welcome.

jaclaz

P.S.: Don't forget the "Careware" License that applies to ALL my small files :

CAREWARE LICENSE

This script is released as "CAREWARE", it may be freely distributed, used, modified and whatever, provided that the user, at least once per use, performs ANY of the following

1 - Smiles at somebody/something

2 - Hugs or pats on the shoulder a friend/colleague/pet/furry little creature from Alpha Centauri

3 - Acts nicely towards a friend/foreigner/alien/any other living being

4 - Kisses his/her girlfriend/wife/boyfriend/husband/any other living being (de gustibus...)

5 - Feels happy even without apparent reason

6 - Stops whining for an hour, a day, a week, your choice

Important Note: if you don't like this idea, just ignore it -- you can have this anyway.

That's one way to distinguish the world of ideas from the rest of human history:

you can disregard an idea ...

...and no one knocks on your door at midnight.

(Unless it's your neighbour in need of a cup of sugar), in which case you MAY act NON-nicely

This post has been edited by jaclaz: Jan 24 2008, 01:19 AM

[edborg]

Yep, PRESENT!

Thanks for replying to the call so quickly ... and for the solution already worked out!
I had missed your previous post , but I'll have a look at it in detail asap.

EDIT
I couldn't wait experimenting!
I've tested on a 256MB stick (USB-FDD), getting the MBR from the HD and from another 1GB stick (USB-HDD).
The CAREWARE script works well and it's quite straightforward, saving a lot of time in comparison with the lengthy manual procedure (which I did not test yet).
The PTtableUSB.xls, even if it's made no longer necessary by the script, gives a lot of info to "those who want to know" everything of a pendrive.
Congratulations!
edborg
P.S. With the script is it possible to write any working MBR, regardless the type/size/partitions of the source to any target?
PP.SS. My "256MB" stick is still seen by Windows as 247MB, 259739648 byte

[jaclaz]

Sorry, Edborg, in the haste of uploding, I uploaded a "test" version with a "jump" to :end NOT REMmed out.

All you saw was just what the program was "supposed" to do, but it actually did NOTHING!

I have now uploaded the "working" version.

P.S. With the script is it possible to write any working MBR, regardless the type/size/partitions of the source to any target?

Yep, what it actually does is:
1)get first 440 bytes from beginning of Source
2)extract from USBstick.dat a "padding" file formed by 6 bytes set to 00
3)extract from USBstick.dat the "chosen size" partition entry (16 bytes)
4)extract from USBstick.dat a "padding" file formed by 16 bytes set to 00
5)extract from USBstick.dat a "Magic signature" file formed by 2 bytes 55 AA
copy 1)+2)+3)+4)+4)+4)+5) to a single 512 bytes file
copy the 512 bytes file to beginning of Destination

jaclaz

P.S.: The USBstick.dat can be made manually/edited, I only put an MD5 signature to the USBstick.dat as to make sure that the data file is not "unwantingly" corrupted
The volume inside an image made of 256,000 Kbytes, aka 262,144,000 bytes results using my batch (with windows explorer right click -> properties, after formatting):
FAT16 254,685,184 bytes, 0 bytes occupied, 254,685,184 free
FAT32 253,941,760 bytes, 2048 bytes occupied, 253,939,712 free
NTFS 254,950,912 bytes, 3,064,320 bytes occupied, 251,886,592

Using the MAXimum capacity I obtain:
FAT16 261,836,800 bytes, 0 bytes occupied, 261,836,800 free
FAT32 261,074,944 bytes, 2048 bytes occupied, 261,072,896 free
NTFS 262,111,232 bytes, 3,131,392 bytes occupied, 258,979,840 free

By using a "fictional" 32 sectors geometry, making partition start at CHS 0/0/33 instead of the 0/1/1 of the 63 one you can recover theoretically yet 31*512 bytes =15,872 bytes,
but probably due to some other constraints, results are:
FAT16 261,869,568 bytes, 0 bytes occupied, 261,869,568 free
FAT32 261,105,664 bytes, 2048 bytes occupied, 261,103,616 free
NTFS 262,142,976 bytes, 3,131,392 bytes occupied, 259,011,584 free

[edborg]

Sorry, Edborg, in the haste of uploding, I uploaded a "test" version with a "jump" to :end NOT REMmed out.

I re-downloaded the full version, and it works fine ... even when it writes to the stick!
The reason why the "test" version seemed to work as well is that the utility doesn't format the stick and doesn't destroy any data, so the stick worked ... as before!

Unfortunately my satisfaction ended very soon, as another problem appeared on my 256MB pendrive, although this time it may have nothing to do with the format, but probably with subsequent steps of the booting process.
These are the facts:
After running MakeMBR.cmd I copied the XP system files: boot.ini, ntldr, and (Dietmar's) ntdetect.com.
I then booted and got the error "INF txtsetup.sif ... missing" which I interpreted positively, as it was the same message I got for another stick that, after copying the BartPE files, booted regularly.
But in this case, after copying the BartPE files I got another (new) error message "File \minint\system32\biosinfo.inf could not be loaded. The error code is 1...".
Needless to say that the BartPE build was OK and required file was there.
Any ideas?
edborg

[jaclaz]

I suspect that that error is more due to motherboard than to stick.
If you search on the board for
\minint\system32\biosinfo.inf

you will find a few posts of people having this kind of problem with motherboards with Intel 845 or 865 chips.

However from what you write it seems like you used a "setupldr" renamed to "NTLDR" as per BartPE install.

The "missing txtsetup.sif" message, like seeing the boot.ini choices, if you use a "real" NTLDR (the one that reads "boot.ini") should mean that the MBR/Boot record part of the process is OK.

jaclaz

[cdob]

I got another (new) error message "File \minint\system32\biosinfo.inf could not be loaded. The error code is 1...".

My txtsetup.sif dosn't contain

CODE

[BiosInfo]
InfName=biosinfo.inf

anymore. Setupldr.bin dosn't seek biosinfo.inf anymore.

BartPE boot from USB hard disk \minint mode.

[Daemonforce]

Besides building PE, listening to music and browsing sites I trust, I find it a good idea to use vmware for everything else. Especially using BartPE. It's a great way to do some research without getting killed in a drive-by download. x_X'

besides... while convenient, it is VERY slow. You'd be better off using removable HDs or basic portable apps on a thumb drive.
In a corporate environment, a PC can be imaged in 10 minutes or so

Most modern computers are like that. Hell Longhorn is like that on this computer! It's faaa-st! o.o'

My server isn't like that. The box connected to this one is a legacy Super-7 with an ATA-33 IDE controller and a mix of AGP/PCI/ISA peripherals. I'm just lucky that I didn't get stuck with some crap that can't even boot a CD. It was what I started with in 2000 and I had to fall back to using this slow thing a few months after building my P4 because it liked killing weak 4xx watt PSUs. It takes 45 minutes to install Windows XP on that machine and 60 minutes to install Windows Server 2003 Enterprise. Imagine having that to rely on and it suddenly gets nuked for God knows what reason in the middle of working on a report.

EDIT: Without a recovery solution! o_O'

[edborg]

My txtsetup.sif dosn't contain

CODE

[BiosInfo]
InfName=biosinfo.inf

anymore. Setupldr.bin dosn't seek biosinfo.inf anymore.

BartPE boot from USB hard disk \minint mode.

Mine does (built with new PEbuilder 3.1.9)! What's wrong with it?
Could you pls explain?
Thanks
edborg

[jaclaz]

Small correction might be necessary AFTER using the makeMBR.cmd and Windows formatting.
At least on one system the 128 Mb key did not boot.

To make it boot I had to edit (with Beeblebrox) the Partition table and change Partition type from 06 (BIGFAT) to 0E (FAT16 LBA mapped).

It's however a minor problem that can be "automated" as well, once it is found to be recurring.


jaclaz

[edborg]

I suspect that that error is more due to motherboard than to stick.

But how comes that other sticks/disk boot regularly on this notebook (an Intel 852/855 chipset)?

However from what you write it seems like you used a "setupldr" renamed to "NTLDR" as per BartPE install.

Right!

The "missing txtsetup.sif" message, like seeing the boot.ini choices, if you use a "real" NTLDR (the one that reads "boot.ini") should mean that the MBR/Boot record part of the process is OK.

This is good news! I then did some more tests:
NTLDR BartPE --------> biosinfo.inf error
NTLDR standard ------> boot.ini menu OK --------> hal.dll corrupted error (no more biosinfo.inf!)
Does this mean something?
edborg
P.S. When you're fed up with replying to all my questions, just say so!

[edborg]

Small correction might be necessary AFTER using the makeMBR.cmd and Windows formatting.
At least on one system the 128 Mb key did not boot.

To make it boot I had to edit (with Beeblebrox) the Partition table and change Partition type from 06 (BIGFAT) to 0E (FAT16 LBA mapped).

It's however a minor problem that can be "automated" as well, once it is found to be recurring.
jaclaz

I had already made some tests changing from ID06 to ID0E, but noticed no difference in the error messages.

This also suprises me, because from previous tests conducted on two sticks with MS Format + mkbt (ID06) and HP Format (ID0E) I had got different results on two sticks (Seitec 256MB and Verbatim 1GB), that led me to believe that the partition type was fundamental!

With MS Format (ID06): "disk error" on Seitec (OK on Verbatim)
With HP Format (ID0E): OK, but subsequent error as described, on Seitec (not tested on Verbatim).
Apparently something else, in addition to the partition type, makes the difference.
edborg
EDIT: I realize now that one thing I din't do exactly as per your instructions. I didn't re-format the stick, as I thought that changing the partition type, or even the entire MBR wouldn't affect format.

[cdob]

@edborg

I opened file USB:\i386\txtsetup.sif and deleted both lines.

[jaclaz]

EDIT: I realize now that one thing I din't do exactly as per your instructions. I didn't re-format the stick, as I thought that changing the partition type, or even the entire MBR wouldn't affect format.

Well, the idea was to start from a stick that has been ENTIRELY "wiped".

Simple method:

fsz 256MBstick.img 262144000
(the above will create a file size 262,144,000 bytes filled with 0 bytes)
dsfi \\.\PHYSICALDRIVEx 0 0 256MBstick.img
(the above will copy the said image to the x drive make sure you use the RIGHT number

NTLDR standard ------> boot.ini menu OK --------> hal.dll corrupted error
Does this mean something?

Yes it means that the stick boots ALLRIGHT.

Actually the error with the standard NTLDR should be something like "missing file" in [windows directory]\system32\ntoskernel.exe
IF the NTDETECT.COM is present in root directory
and something like "NTDETECT failed" if it is not present.

Try the following to make sure:
1)Copy to the stick ONLY boot.ini and NTLDR
2)try booting from it, error should be "Ntdetect failed"
3)add to the stick NTDETECT.COM
4)error should be the NTOSKERNEL one

The error you are having usually is attributed to a wrong entry in boot.ini
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_haldll_missing.htm

make sure yours is

[Boot Loader]Timeout=5
Default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT
[Operating Systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Windows XP"

jaclaz

[edborg]

@edborg
I opened file USB:\i386\txtsetup.sif and deleted both lines.

I did it too and, as "Setupldr.bin dosn't seek biosinfo.inf anymore", got no biosinfo.inf error.
But I got instead: "The entry "ntoskrnl.exe" in the [SourceDisksFiles] sextion of the INF file is corrupt or missing..."
Should I now delete Ntoskrnl as well? ... and so on with the other files?

[edborg]

@jaclaz
THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE!
I followed exactly your instructions:
1. wiped the stick with fsz/dsfi
2. checked that it had been filled with 00
3. copied only your boot.ini and standard ntldr from XP SP1 (changed WINNT to WINDOWS)
4. booted ... and got immediate endless loops (no message at all)
5. added standard ntdetect.com (from XP SP1)
6. rebooted and got: "Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corrupt: <Windows root>\system32\hal.dll. Please re-install a copy of the above file."
I then made a few other combinations with Dietmar's ntdetect, and found no difference.

At this point, in my view the responsible of the failure must be this stick (my other stick and disk work both perfectly).
They had both been formatted with MS Format + MBKT (using a script I created modifying Bart's pe2usb.cmd)
As I don't dare to put them at risk with further experiments , I think I'll have to give up now.
edborg

[jaclaz]

2. checked that it had been filled with 00
3. copied only your boot.ini and standard ntldr from XP SP1 (changed WINNT to WINDOWS)

I sincerely hope that BETWEEN 2. and 3. you:
2a) ran the makeMBR.CMD
2b) unplugged the stick
2c) re-plugged the stick
2d) double clicked on it and, when Windows said "Unreadable disk, do you want to format it?" chose to do so, formatting as fat 16



However if you get till there, it should mean that BOTH MBR and bootsector are OK.
(but I quite frankly doubt that the problem is the stick itself)
It is possible that something in "my" method is eluding us.

Did you try the method you succesfully used on your OTHER stick on THIS stick?
It would be interesting to know if there is any difference.

jaclaz

[Dietmar]

Hi all,

I do not know, whether this is important but:

I build by hand a MBR for my Buffalo 2Gbyte USB stick.

It booted fine and Xp installed itself on it without any changes of that MBR or other problems via F6 methode.

This USB stick works on an AMD (Siemens D1607) and on my Shuttle Barebone SB61G2 PC.

And now comes that, I do not understand: On my Asus P4C800-E Deluxe motherboard is
now "NTLDR not found" shown.
So this message must belong in this special case simple to the Bios of the Asus motherboard.
If I use the HP-Format utility, this message is there not be shown (?!) but the MBR has a wrong CHS structur and you cant install XP on it.

Nice to hear from you
Dietmar

[jaclaz]

Yep, the problem "should be" this:
1) BIOS can read the disk as CHS or LBA (it depends on motherboard/BIOSes, not on sticks)
2) Windows 2k/XP will ALWAYS get the geometry of the stick as CHS (but actually uses LBA) with 255 Heads and 63 Sectors
3) BIOS (to be more exact DOS/Win9x that "relies" on BIOS for hard disk information), tend to use the "elder" geometry of 16 Heads 63 Sectors

So, in a nutshell, a "correctly" formatted stick, meaning with 255H/63S, geometry while being "good" for Windows 2K/XP is NOT good for all BIOSes.

If the BIOS uses LBA access, the CHS is alltogether useless and the key will boot OK.

If it uses CHS access, it will not boot correctly, and you have to use the "trick" referred to in my pages, to use a CHS that is correspondent to the geometry the BIOS uses and an LBA that is correct even with the geometry Win2k/XP "likes".

It is also possible that sticks up to a certain size (probably 512Mb or 1GB) are seen by BIOS in a "different" way than smaller ones.

Most probably the SETUP of XP finds this and aborts the install.

@edborg
The geometry for a 256MB stick (as seen in beeblebrox) "should" be:
255H/63S
0-06-80-0-1-1-30-254-63-63-497952

16H/63S
0-06-80-0-1-1-494-0-63-63-497952

jaclaz

[Dietmar]

Hi jaclaz,

is the first behavior with the CHS problem, that you described, the same for USB sticks and USB harddisks?

The second behavior, that large USB sticks are shown to most Bioses in a different way than small ones, happens not to USB harddisks.
I tested that with a lot of USB harddisks and computers.

One thing is another on a USB harddisk: You can choose LBA detection on a lot of Bioses, because a harddisk is shown not as a removable device.

Nice to hear from you
Dietmar

[MrXP]

I'm still waiting on a method that can allow a PC to boot a external usb hard drive even if the BIOS doesn't support USB booting. To boot up BartPE/WinPE from a external drive enclosure or even a thumb drive.

MrXP