Boot compressed IS_ from USB, save more then 50% disk space Options

[gcru]

any one try boot compressed image ?
sdi save 3x % space
iso,img compress with makecab save more then 50% space
MAKECAB /D CompressionType=LZX /D CompressionMemory=21 /D /D Cabinet=ON /D Compress=ON /D FolderSizeThreshold=5000000 ABC.ISO ABC.IS_

287 mb iso after MAKECAB trim down to 99mb.
199 mb iso ==> 71mb .


winnt.sif
[SetupData]
BootDevice="ramdisk(0)"
BootPath="\I386\SYSTEM32\"
OsLoadOptions="/minint /fastdetect /rdexportascd /rdpath=ABC.IS_"


; OsLoadOptions = "/noguiboot /fastdetect /minint /rdpath=PXE\TFTP\ISO\WINPE.SDI /rdimageoffset=36352"
; OsLoadOptions = "/minint /fastdetect /rdpath=BOOT_IMG\48MB.IMG"
; OsLoadOptions="/minint /fastdetect /rdexportascd /rdpath=WinPE_CHT_SLIM.ISO"

it successed to boot with 2GB USB flash stick, card reader + CF card. all boot to DOS and run grub.exe and chainload setupldr.bin.

* to boot with IS_ , build pe with win2003 .
xp sp2 should ok with replace 2k3's setupldr.bin ntdetect.com , but i can't have it boot up. with sp2 i only able to boot with sdi. anyone know why ???


is it possible to boot from a IM_ that is NTFS compress ? can it save more space then IS_ ??

[dennis123123]

Does this save space in RAM usage, or just on the usb drive?

[paraglider]

Any programs when running are still the same size so it certainly won't decrease the amount of ram required. There is a good chance that it will actually increase the amount of ram as you can finish up with both the compressed and the uncompressed version in memory.

This post has been edited by paraglider: May 18 2007, 06:51 AM

[gcru]

I don't think this can save ram , unless it's a ntfs compress (img or sdi) .
use less usb space gain boot up speed , most mb only support usb 1.1 before windows boot up. a 400 mb image take 3 - 4 min.

I still don't know now to make a xp sp2 build pe , that can be cab compress and boot .
why xp sp2 build can boot with sdi ram boot but not cab compressed ISO (. IS_ ) ??

[cdob]

@gcru
Thanks, nice idea.

2003 SP1 setupldr.bin and XP source files does work here.
I'm using "MAKECAB BARTPE.ISO" and "/rdpath=BARTPE.ISO".

Booted BartPE:
BARTPE.IS_ 104 MB - taskmanager free 1640240 KB
BARTPE.ISO 218 MB - taskmanager free 1639860 KB

A fully booted BartPE require the same RAM.
BARTPE.IS_ is loaded in RAM and extracted in RAM.
After that, BARTPE.IS_ used RAM space is freed.


BARTPE.ISO 450 MB - taskmanager free 1371024 KB

BARTPE.IS_ 204 MB
File BARTPE.ISO could not be loaded.
The error code is 16

Error 16 reminds at 500 MB size limit of setupldr.bin or ramdisk.sys.

Conclution:
Setupldr.bin load BARTPE.IS_ in RAM and expand file to BARTPE.ISO.
Added size of BARTPE.IS_ and BARTPE.ISO has to be below 500 MB.

A BARTPE.IS_ filesize approximately 180 MB is possible.

[diddy]

is it possible to boot from a IM_ that is NTFS compress ? can it save more space then IS_ ??

@gcru
Firstly, thanks for the guide - it will no doubt save me a lot of time booting RAM images from USB drives.

To answer your question - Yes it is possible to boot NTFS compressed .IM_ images. Whether or not it saves space is not an easy question to answer.

My ISO base image was 183MB, which compressed to a 81.8MB .IS_ file.

My IMG base image (NTFS compressed) was 160MB, which compressed to a 106MB .IM_ file. The IM_ file however includes 34MB of writable space, saving space if using an equivalent sized RAM disk with the IS_ image.

I used XP source files with w2k3 (SP1) setupldr.bin and I followed cdob’s instructions and used the following makecab command -

CODE

MAKECAB PE.IMG

My Winnt.sif entry -

CODE

[SetupData]
BootDevice = "ramdisk(0)"
BootPath = "\i386\System32\"
OsLoadOptions = "/noguiboot /fastdetect /minint /rdpath=PE.IMG"

diddy

[kdmorse]

Sorry to revive an old thread - but I just ago around to trying this.

I was able to make it work for locally booted images, but not for PXE booted images. The image transfers, but then immediately errors out telling me that "txtsetup.inf was not found or is corrupt".

I'm assuming the bootloader can either load the image from the disk and decompress it into memory, or copy it over the network and store it in memory - but that it cannot copy it over the network, store it in memory, and then decompress it into memory.

It would be nice - since the compressed ISO's are so much smaller than any compressed SDI I can make, and transfer over the network in nearly half the time. Just curious if anyone managed to PXE a compressed ISO, or if it's simply not possible.

(For the record - I don't give a fig how much memory the process takes. I'm concerned with one thing, and one thing only - PXE boot speed - and that's directly proportional to the size of the image that needs to be transferred)

Thanks,

-Ken

This post has been edited by kdmorse: Aug 29 2007, 03:11 PM

[gcru]

PXE boot don't support compress image except SDI (ntfs compress) image.
500 mb image transfer between network take 3 ~ 3 mins.

[bobrock]

@gcru
Thanks, nice idea.

2003 SP1 setupldr.bin and XP source files does work here.
I'm using "MAKECAB BARTPE.ISO" and "/rdpath=BARTPE.ISO".

Booted BartPE:
BARTPE.IS_ 104 MB - taskmanager free 1640240 KB
BARTPE.ISO 218 MB - taskmanager free 1639860 KB

A fully booted BartPE require the same RAM.
BARTPE.IS_ is loaded in RAM and extracted in RAM.
After that, BARTPE.IS_ used RAM space is freed.


BARTPE.ISO 450 MB - taskmanager free 1371024 KB

BARTPE.IS_ 204 MB
File BARTPE.ISO could not be loaded.
The error code is 16

Error 16 reminds at 500 MB size limit of setupldr.bin or ramdisk.sys.

Conclution:
Setupldr.bin load BARTPE.IS_ in RAM and expand file to BARTPE.ISO.
Added size of BARTPE.IS_ and BARTPE.ISO has to be below 500 MB.

A BARTPE.IS_ filesize approximately 180 MB is possible.

From my experience, you'll get "The error code 16" when booting compressed images if BARTPE.ISO and BARTPE.IS_ together weight more than ca. 350MB.

You gain speed but loose around 150MB compared to uncompressed booting.
I haven't be able to understand or find a workaround to the problem. Is there anyone to confirm this or explain why this is happening?

[Nuno Brito]

Sure there is a workaround, why bother with such bloated images in the first place.

--

Use NativeEx with a windows 2003 source and create yourself a ~50Mb PE boot disk with goodies like the explorer shell and such.

Cab compress the image to ~30Mb and see it fly over the PXE protocol.

It has explorer.exe running very well but it is not using XPE for anything so the boot up time is extremely optimized as well.

The automated BootSDI script is also included inside nativeEx for a long time now.

http://winbuilder.net/download.php?view.27

I've posted the link for a stable version created last December, I seriously recommend getting the latest files from this project using the internal download center inside wb for optimum results.

All instructions are included inside the wb program: http://winbuilder.net/download.php?list.3

[bobrock]

Thanks Nuno, I'll give NativeEx a try.

By now I've beeen using BartPE+XPE with essential plugins only and 2 custom apps + some drivers.
It builds to 220-260MB .iso (80-100MB compressed) which is around the ISO+IS_ limit of 350MB.
Comparing to other BartPE builds I guess it's not that bloated.

[gcru]

you must spend lot of time to trim down a bartpe+xpe plugin. normal build shoud 400mb +.
it's seem not possible to have it less then 150 mb without lose any feature.
my build also 200mb+ , i separate to 3 step.

2xmb boot to com console (system\Setup\CmdLine).
2xmb to have network support and NIC driver.
4xmb to have files necessary get into xpe desktop and must exist before com console.
about 100mb that limit read speed by USB 1.1

another 1xx mb that need to get into xpe desktop copy to x: from USB or Network.

the rest files i store in a wim file and mout it to search path after desktop.



to be able boot big winpe (ram boot ISO 350mb limit). i use Hdd IMG format to store winpe files. (i need more write space at x: after boot up)
400mb ntfs compress img file, should hold 500mb + data.
gzip the img format winpe and store it in a ISO file.
use grldr (grub4dos) to map it as harddisk.
use diskless angel to fix BSOD 0x7b.
pxe boot is ok as well.

with this procedure, i have NTFS system drive.
I can mount dot net 2 to x: , Microsoft.Net and Assembly dir store wim file (6x mb). this plug-in only need few file before get in xpe desktop.

[Nuno Brito]

I beg to differ.

It is easy to create a smallish XP PE environment (which is what bartPE is in the first place and nothing to do with XPE from sherpya or XPe from Microsoft), you can even reduce a bartPE to 36Mb with a few steps: http://nunobrito.eu/download.php?view.2

You can build a fully featured boot disk with all bells and whistles in little over 100Mb, saying otherwise is simply non-sense because we've been doing it for years now.

Look here:


That is a liveXP project sized in 120Mb and contains all sort of freeware programs along with full support for the explorer shell, MMC, network and SATA support straight from driverpacks.

The building of all this project is fully automatic and requires no black magic - we simply invested a lot of time to understand how everything works and rewrote everything from scratch. No need for bartPE, XPE, WIM compression or anything else - just plain and simple results.

We're in 2008 and sometimes it seems like things haven't evolved since 2003 but that is not the case here.

Try it out if you don't believe me.

[hj_fr]

BartPE boot compressed image is a really good idea ! I didnt know it was possible to do that.

I try this method on my usb key and here is my conclusions:

First for info, 2003 SP2 boot files (ntldr (SETUPLDR.BIN) and NTDETECT.COM) can't boot any of my compressed images It hangs every time after the decompression. Msg "waiting..."

I use 2003 SP1 boot files (ntldr (SETUPLDR.BIN) and NTDETECT.COM). I didn't test with a XP-SP2 but my compressed Barte with XP-SP3 source didn't boot (I put ramdisk.sys, etc, but nothing happened). It hangs or i have a msg: "ramdisk.sys not found". Then, I use 2003 SP2 source files for my BartPE.

So:
My Bartpe ISO: 169 MB
Same converted to SDI: 119 MB
Compressed (makecab): 72,4 MB

Boot on recent computer (USB2):
SDI: 1min35
IS_: 1min52

Boot on old computer with lot of ram (512+) (usb2 but 1.1 for usb boot):
SDI: 7min23
IS_: 5min10

Boot on recent computer but only 256 Mo (with some memory shared with integrated graphics)
SDI: 1min31
IS_: no boot: ntldr damaged (?!)

That's all.

[Galapo]

Boot on recent computer but only 256 Mo (with some memory shared with integrated graphics)
SDI: 1min31
IS_: no boot: ntldr damaged (?!)

It would seem you need to add more ram for it to boot as 169+72,4 = 241.4mb. That is, compressed image is loaded to ram and then uncompressed. With shared graphics etc. there is not enough ram left given that 241.4mb is taken by loading ram image. So: either add more ram, or decrease image size.

Alternative method is to patch setupldr.bin so that there is more efficient use of ram as introduced here. WinBuilder LiveXP project optionally allows for this in the BootSDI script: http://livexp.boot-land.net/LiveXP/Finish/.../BootSDI.script. What needs to be hex-edited is there in the script as is the extra piece of file which is to be appended to original setupldr.bin.

Regards,
Galapo.

[wimb_2]

With BOOT_IMG.cmd of USB_XP_Setup package you can Create NTFS Compressed BartPE.img RAMBOOT Image Files
and Install them as Boot Option in boot.ini Menu and GRUB4DOS menu.lst Menu on ANY Drive.
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/?showtopic=5306

The NTFS Compressed Image Files are more efficient than the Compressed IS_ files, which require Extra RAM space for decompression.

This post has been edited by wimb_2: Aug 27 2008, 11:46 PM

[Galapo]

The NTFS Compressed Image Files are more efficient than the Compressed IS_ files, which require Extra RAM space for decompression.

The current BootSDI script allows for ntfs-compressed image and then additional option of cab-compressing this image to reduce size even further. If setupldr.bin is patched, ram requirements of using a cab-compressed image is not increased. Best of both worlds!

Regards,
Galapo.

This post has been edited by Galapo: Aug 28 2008, 12:12 AM

[wimb_2]

The BootSDI script of WinBuilder LiveXP is very handy and build in,
but for UBCD4WIN or BartPE my BOOT_IMG.cmd can be useful to
make NTFS Compressed RAMBOOT Image Files for these PE Versions.

[Galapo]

Yes, exactly: both have their place.

So it would seem he has a few options:

a) increase ram;
b) decrease image size;
c) use BOOT_IMG.cmd to produce ram-booting image (smaller to .iso); or
d) patch setupldr.bin if still wanting to use cab-compressed .iso.

Regards,
Galapo.

[gcru]

My Bartpe ISO: 169 MB
Same converted to SDI: 119 MB
Compressed (makecab): 72,4 MB

Boot on recent computer (USB2):
SDI: 1min35
IS_: 1min52

Boot on old computer with lot of ram (512+) (usb2 but 1.1 for usb boot):
SDI: 7min23
IS_: 5min10

Boot on recent computer but only 256 Mo (with some memory shared with integrated graphics)
SDI: 1min31
IS_: no boot: ntldr damaged (?!)

That's all.

data above means if you have enough ram, cab compress suitable for most computer.

it seems not possible to make it smaller. so i cut boot image to 2 parts.
1'st part around 3-40mb after gzip. 45 second boot to cmd prompt from boot menu.
copy, mount the rest files at cmd prompt (startnet.cmd) and goto xpe desktop takes another 1min15 on Penutium D computer.