Is Reatogo Dead/Abonded?

Well, with the introduction of WinPE2.0 (from vista), many of the older PE projects we are seeing less and less of for obvious reasons.

If you seek something automated and explorer-like, try VistaPE (google it)

Siegfried is no longer developing Reatogo.

That is such sad news, that Seigfried was such a nice guy.

So sad to see people that take our hard work, and try to make a buck from it, go down. Now if we can just get rid of that guy making $4.95 per plugin download!!

He still is a nice guy. He's just moved on, thats all.

If you want to believe that, it's up to you. The money dried up so why would he waste time helping people?? UBCD4Win was the first and still continues on to help people for free!!

A few facts, at least I know and think about it:
- Each package (core Bart / Reatogo / UBCD4WIN / WinBuilder) has its pro et cons.
- Reatogo is free and don't ask for money, look Mustang's site for example. Free donation is something else.
- Siegfried lost interest after the great sin when he tried to connect Reatogo and UBCD4WIN, somewhere in the forum has a big thread about it.
- Remember that the Premium key (witch opens some possibilities) earlier is possible to get if you created a new plugin(s) in other word contribute to project, now just download from his site.
- Unfortunately, many authors have left this site or project also.
- Because of forcing Vista by the M$ migration towards WinPe 2.0 projects.
- For end I don't have any personal or business ties with Siegfried.

Its all part of the loss of interest in BartPE. Mainly because Bart promised a new version of pebuilder nearly 2 years ago and never delivered. Most people have moved over to winbuilder which is actively developed.

Speaking of money, I would be very surprised if Bart isn't making money off of PEBuilder. Maybe not directly but indirectly at least. How many have paid to distribute his OEM version? How much is the Greman mag c't paying Bart to distribute their CD? How much is he making off the website's ads? Speaking engagements? etc etc

1. @Nicky- I agree that all packages have their pro's and con's. I am simply stating what I have observed over the years. Reatogo was in FACT paid software in the early days. I have to believe that thanks to some of my harassment of Seigfried, I helped push him to change that model. I had thoughts of charging for UBCD4Win in the early days but figured it wouldn't work because of piracy and I really just wanted to help people. I figured that people would thanks us for our help with donations to pay the bills. Luckily UBCD4Win caught on relatively quickly, after 6 months I wasn't in the hole anymore and donations started paying for our hosting, etc.
So really, I still stand by my comment. Seigfried wasn't making money or enough money so he moved on.
I agree with the Win PE 2.0 stuff you mention. I get questions all the time about a UBCD4Vista, etc. I personally made the wrong move in waiting for Bart, more of that will be covered below. UBCD4Win has kept us all quite busy so I really can't blame it all on Bart, we simply haven't had the time to develop something for PE 2.0. I've wanted to check out WinBuilder but still haven't had time to check it out and try to help those guys.

2. @Paraglider- I agree. I've tried contacting Bart on several occasions asking how things were going. Always get a one sentence response that is vague. I believe there is still a big need for Bart PE, there are many XP computers still out there and Bart PE still works well. Sure new features and such would be really nice but oh well, like I said it works or we figure out a way to make things work!!
Bart is a hero for what he did and I have a great deal of appreciation for him and his work so I've NEVER spoken badly of him. However there is a little bit of bitterness for him failing to come through on his promise. Then again I don't really recall if it was in fact a promise or not but that doesn't matter much. I was under the impression that he was/would be working on a new version. Things would be a lot different if he had taken the time to keep in contact with us or at least tell us he wasn't going to do it. So I will still feel bitter.

3. @Ed- I can almost guarantee you that he is still making plenty of money. I would think he should get several donations a day? Bart PE has been mentioned in countless magazines, email newsletters, etc.
As for how much, it's really none of our business. I don't think we should really discuss it? I do sometimes wonder how many OEM licenses he has sold, but it's none of my business to ask him.

If I may, I wouldn't draw such a definite line between "good" guys and "bad" guys only because they ask (or require) money for their work.

Though the (very little) contributions I make to the community are rigorously "free as in freedom AND free as in free beer":
http://home.graffiti.net/jaclaz:graffiti.net/careware.html

there is nothing against making a few (or more than a few) bucks for one's own work.

What I find really deceiving and overall unfair are those "developers" that first release their initial products as Freeware and later, after having had suggestions, hints, bettering, troubleshooting reports and beta testing, change the new or final release to Shareware or Payware (even for "home users").

In this latter case they are owning money for work done partially by the Community.

A number of apps initially released as Shareware or Commercial, become Freeware after some time, which is a good thing.

This can obviously be caused by either a change of mind of the developer or, more pragmatically, from the sheer fact that the given app "produces" no or very little income after some time, and supproting it effectively is more troublesome than what it is worth.

But it is anyway a personal decision of the developer, he/she can be a nice guy/gal even if he initailly sold (or still sells) the product of his/her own intelligence and experience.

jaclaz

I personally hope he's making a TON of money, what he has done for the community is worth every penny he can get from it.

Projects have a certain life span and let's face it with everything else that's available BartPE is probably waning. I know that I still use it a lot though.

I don't think the days of pebuilder are counted.
Pebuilder is still the easiest tool to create a Windows-LiveCD - its much easier than winbuilder.

The problem is more with the plugins ... the more you have the less control you have over the results.

There also is a problem with the attitude of the developers - there is no work left if we limit ourselves to making a rescue-platform.

With the basic ingredients portabilty and read-only system core PE could become the better Windows one day ....

I almost agree with you, well I guess only about the WinBuilder part. I'm not going on the record to say anything positive or negative about WinBuilder because it would not be fair considering I haven't had the time to play with it much. I can just go by many reports from others that say it is hard and complicated. If my work at work, home, and UBCD4Win ever slows down that will be one of the first things I do, play with WinBuilder.
I do think the days of the current Bart PE Builder are counting down, but it's certainly far from being over. I work at a shop and see the trends of 98, XP, and Vista systems. We are seeing a lot less 98 systems and still have seen few Vista systems. Always seems like we see XP systems full of viruses/spyware!!
So I honestly think we (BPE community) still have many years left but that is starting to get hurt with .NET and Visual C++ requirements from some software. XP systems will not die off much even if/when MS releases Win7 next year, assuming all the garbage about release dates I read is correct.

I do still strongly feel the original vision of what Bart and many others visioned BPE as......a RECOVERY platform. Some people want to take the time to work on other things, fine but I don't think it should go overboard. I personally only like to worry about recovery because that is all I want and need from BPE. I don't think the "there is no work left if we limit ourselves" is correct at all. There is plenty to do.
The advances of USB booting have been awesome and should only get better with more and more USB boot capable mobo's going out. Sure it may come in handy to be able to test sound, but I really don't think you need video and other applications. Of course for some though I guess it would be nice in open an Excel spreadsheet in an emergency?

I think this is not an accurate nor fair statement.

WinBuilder is a script engine it's not a XP PE builder to start with, whether it's easier or not to get wb boot disk projects working or not depends entirely on the respective project developers and users.

wb was developed having in mind the research and development of things that were possible to do with windows and one of the reasons why wb exists is to seek out new challenges and this is just not feasible with BartPE.

You find wb projects for everything related to boot disks that go from slim rescue platforms to full multimedia environments booting from CD or whichever chosen media.

And there are so many people contributing with new app scripts at each new week that work regardless of the end project being built from XP, Vista or whatever source so why would all of this activity happen if wb is not at least as easy to work with as bartPE?


I think you mean that your experience with wb is not good, but as was mentioned at the time you wrote about it on the forum - there was an error on the files from the LiveXP download server that was corrected once you reported it. This happens with all active developments, just wish your experience had been a bit more pleasant to know what I mean.

----


I'm just sad because when I read you reply I see the lack of recognition for the talent of developers like PSC, Galapo, Thuun, MedEvil, NightMan and so many other gifted people that created such amazing developments with boot disks over these last 4 years and yet their work is barely noticed in detriment to deities that stopped working with PE environments a long time ago even thought some of them like Peter spent so many time helping you with MOA.

It's also feels so strange to hear comparisons of wb vs bartPE in terms of being easy. With bartPE it's not easy at all to create a better project, for example, try persuading the author to skip the need of using a dummy mkisofs.exe to allow "post-processing" plugins, avoid need for "ZZZ" plugin title names, to stop copying >150Mb worth of XP files when you barely need over 30Mb for the same level of functionality or even redistribute his work without a paid OEM version.

In conclusion, being good or not, it's people like you and me along with many other kind souls that join these works that create, share and improve the state of the available projects. Or would you prefer to wait another two years for any glimmer of updates from a closed development like bartPE while ignoring all of these projects that are already available and working?

---

Sorry for the rant..

I hope none of that was directed to me?

I have respect and support for you and your works. I am not trying to start a fight, just voicing my opinions......which of course I expect everyone to agree with!!

Come on Nuno - I thought we knew each other better

I have the highest respect for PSC, Galapo, Thuun, MedEvil, NightMan and the crew. You are doing great stuff - way beyond my head.
When i said pebuilder is much easier than winbuilder I mean something different.

Someone who knows how his build should look like - knows which files he needs and what registry he wants - for this users pebuilder is much easier.

For my builds I use 8 plugins and run an unattended pebuilder - thats very easy with pebuilder ...

regards and happy birthday to you

Ulli

Sorry, I feel really embarrassed when reading back my reply after a few much needed hours of sleep.

Steel, Sanbarrow: You should certainly use the tools with which you feel more comfortable without any doubt and please accept my personal apologies as I consider some of my previous words a bit flaming without any need. I believe that in bottom line what matters is having fun while doing the sort of things you like best.

You guys rock!

Can I add something? Please stop the debate about what it was before the egg or chicken.
I hope that you understand this local phrase. I deeply appreciate your hard work and achievements of all developers.
For me the BartPE and supplements (XPe / Reatogo /...) most important for rescue system and prepare functions.
I think it still has room for improvement and progress. Here's an idea that many would be beneficial if it is realized:
Penetcfg Upgrade?
Use Drivers from HD Installation
Be constructive and made progress

Regards to all
Nikky

Yes, please stop, there is nothing more to say!!!

Joshua

And, moreover, the problem is NOT with the egg and the chicken, but with the chickens and the road:




jaclaz

He he, good one jaclaz
Anny suggestion for this:
Penetcfg Upgrade?
Use Drivers from HD Installation

Both of those links you specify make suggestions. What more do you want?

Did you try appending / prepending your hard drive path to this registry value:

[Software.AddReg]
0x2, "Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion", "DevicePath", "%SystemRoot%\inf"

@Nikky

Check this:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?...ic=5213&hl=
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?...=5213&st=97

Version 1.3 is in ALPHA/BETA testing:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?...ic=6115&hl=

If everything goes well, it should be a matter of hours/days to new release:
http://www.kare-net.de/Plugins.htm

jaclaz

Hello all! it's been a while since I've been here. I have wondered what ever happened with this stuff. I am so grateful to have been in the middle of this when things were in a 'discovery' mode! I appreciate what everybody did to make BartPE, XPe and Reatago possible. I, for one, focused on a XPe disc and my final one which was created in 2004 is still my best and is still being used. Good luck all and hope to see you around the forums....

Stugpanzer