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Full Version: Using the venerable PEtoUSB in USB flash drives over 2GB
The CD Forum > Bart's PE Builder > USB Booting
Juan
Edited March 5, 2010

Dear all,

The original PEtoUSB (3.0.0.7) is probably the best tool for creating plain BartPE UFDs. This tool however is unable to handle UFDs larger than 2GB.

The purpose of this topic is to develop a quick fix to enable PEtoUSB handling large UFDs. Please help me testing the following procedure. If successful, it will be automated in a plugin, running either from the standalone BartPE or from XP (build folder or CD).

================= SUGGESTED TESTING PROCEDURE =================

0) Build BartPE in the usual way (no need to generate the ISO image) or have your BartPE CD at hand.

1) Download the original PEtoUSB tool (3.0.0.7) from here.

2) Download USB Image Tool from here.

3) Download the FAT16 start image from here. This image contains the start sectors only.
Optional: Download the FAT16 partition from here. CHANGE the extension to .imz in case you get it as .zip. This image contains the entire partition filled with 00.

4) Optional: Download UBUSB from here (very handy for testing the created UFD in QEMU)

5) Optional: Back up all valuable data stored in the test UFD. Start USB Image Tool, select Device from the pull-down, click the USB icon, click Backup, select the destinaton folder and name of the image, click Yes. In Device mode, USB Image Tool will make a bit-by-bit image of the entire UFD. In this mode, you should be able to replicate the exact original contents, including any special partitions/software that may have been present in the UFD.

6) WARNING: all partitions and data on the UFD will be IRREVERSIBLY LOST. You may back up the UFD as described in 5) above.
Start USB Image Tool, select Device from the pull-down, click the USB icon, click Restore, select the FAT16 image and click Yes.
NOTE: the start image will be the fastest to restore, but contains the start sectors only. Puritans like me will prefer restoring the entire partition as to wipe any garbage data left on the UFD.

7) Eject the UFD and insert it again, or restart the computer (otherwise XP may get misled by the image just restored)

8) Start PEtoUSB
DESELECT Enable Disk Format
In Source Path... select the folder that contains your BartPE build or the drive where your BartPE CD is loaded.
SELECT Enable File Copy
Select Overwrite Always from the pull-down.
Press Start and wait for PEtoUSB to finish.

9) Optional: Start UBUSB. Click Test USB to start the newly created UFD in a virtual machine (QEMU). My DataTraveler G2 works perfectly.

10) Boot the computer from the UFD. My DataTraveler G2 also works perfectly in the actual computer.

===================== NOTES =======================

(1) The above procedure will create BartPE on a single FAT16 partition of 2GB. All the remaining capacity will be lost under XP/BartPE, even if you create additonal partitions (XP/BartPE will not be able to see/access them anyhow without tweaking). The loss of storage capacity should not be a problem, given the low prices of UFDs in the 4-8GB range.

(2) To bring the UFD back to its normal capacity, format it in XP or use the HP USB Format Tool.

(3) When selecting an UFD for BartPE on FAT16 give preference to read/write speeds (especially 4K-512K file sizes) over capacity.

(4) The reengineered PEtoUSB (3.0.0.8) creates BartPE in UFDs over 2GB with NTFS. There are two main drawbacks though:
* Certain mainstream UFDs (eg Kingston DataTraveler) do not boot. My brand new (cheap) 8GB DataTraveler G2 for example halts on boot with an "Error loading the operating system"...
* NTFS wears out UFDs much faster than FAT.

(5) There are excellent utilities for creating BartPE on UFDs over 2GB. I have tried the Bootable USB Utility and UBUSB. My only annoyance with these two is the start menu, which can be disabled with some tweaking. I always prefer using the venerable USBtoPE which never let me down.

===================================================

Please try this procedure and report back. If possible, kindly specify the brand, model and capacity of the UFDs tested.

Any other feedback is also gratefully acknowledged.

Thanks in advance,
Juan
jaclaz
Juan,
with all due respect, I fail to see the point. unsure.gif

What do you mean by:
QUOTE
There are excellent utilities out there for creating BartPE on 2+GB UFDs. Have tried Bootable USB-Drive Utility and UBUSB. My only complain is the start menu; the menu can of course be disabled after some tweaking.

unsure.gif

There is not much to tweak, if it's "Bootable USB-Drive Utility" with grub4dos, you simply delete the menu.lst and create a new one with:
CODE
timeout 5
default 0
title BartPE
chainloader /minint/SETUPLDR.BIN


You can however use allright a "plain" utility, like:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9460
RMPREPUSB
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7739
and then use a simple batch to copy the relevant files from BartPE Source to the target drive.
You need to copy to the ROOT of the stick:
SETUPLDR.BIN
NTDETECT.COM
txtsetup.sif
the whole \I386 directory
then EITHER:
  • rename SETUPLDR.BIN to NTLDR

OR:
  • use MAKEBS.CMD or a hex editor to change the name invoked in the bootsector from NTLDR to SETUPLDR.BIN

AND EITHER:
  • rename \I386 to \minint

OR:
  • patch SETUPLDR.BIN to use \I386 instead of \minint on HD like device


The above can also be done "manually" rather easily.

I mean, no offence whatever intended smile.gif, but your way is simply "overkill" or "overcomplex", as I see it. hmm.gif

Also, this is actually avoidable:
QUOTE
WARNING 2: The following procedure will create BartPE on a single FAT16 partition of 2GB. All the remaining capacity will be lost under XP, even if you create additonal partitions (XP will not be able to see/access them). This should not be a problem, given the low prices of UFDs in the 4-8GB range.

By installing a "Fixed device" filter driver, like cfadisk.sys or dummydisk.sys to the XP you can get around it easily (as well as "flipping the bit" of the stick, personally advised)

If you are going to use anyway a 2Gb partition on "any" size stick, you can as well prepare a fixed size HD image with MBRBATCH/MKIMG and populate it on the fly before restoring it to the stick.

In other words, the "nice" part of PEtoUSB is not the "copying files part" which can be easily replicated, but the actual "partition/format" one, which in your method is not used.

Also, and just FYI, there is a "third way", which is FAT32, that allows for filesystem bigger than 2Gb without the NTFS "induced wear".

Just ask if you need additional info on the above.

jaclaz
Juan
Caro Jacopo,

No worries. Any constructive criticism like yours is always welcome.

Following your feedback, I reorganized the OP and tried to make the purpose of the topic as clear as possible. Hope you get the point now.

QUOTE
What do you mean by:
QUOTE
QUOTE
There are excellent utilities out there for creating BartPE on 2+GB UFDs. Have tried Bootable USB-Drive Utility and UBUSB. My only complain is the start menu; the menu can of course be disabled after some tweaking.

My preference is booting directly into BartPE, thus I find the start menu annoying. And having to deactivate the menu only adds to the annoyance. Therefore, my favorite method of creating BartPE UFDs is the straightforward PEtoUSB.

Reading through this section of the Forum, I tend to believe that other users would also keep using the original PEtoUSB if the 2GB barrier is worked around. Thus, I decided to bring the idea to this community for discussion and testing. My initial trials seem to confirm that the simple injection of a 2GB FAT16 partition in large UFDs enables the original PEtoUSB to create BartPE regardless of their size. The downside is of course the lost storage, not a big issue considering that XP/BartPE cannot see other partitions anyhow, and considering how cheap UFD storage is getting.

QUOTE
There is not much to tweak, if it's "Bootable USB-Drive Utility" with grub4dos, you simply delete the menu.lst and create a new one with:
CODE
CODE
timeout 5
default 0
title BartPE
chainloader /minint/SETUPLDR.BIN

Sure, tweaking is simple for those having the specific expertise. The question is how many users of UBU, UBUSB and similar know the trick and are willing to implement it.

QUOTE
You can however use allright a "plain" utility, like:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9460
RMPREPUSB
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7739
and then use a simple batch to copy the relevant files from BartPE Source to the target drive.
[etc, etc.]

Many thanks for sharing your expertise on this matter. Your advice may come very handy at the moment of building the plugin for PEtoUSB.

QUOTE
I mean, no offence whatever intended , but your way is simply "overkill" or "overcomplex", as I see it.

Let us differentiate the testing procedure from the actual plugin.

The suggested testing procedure uses a graphical USB imaging tool to prevent testers from unintentionally tampering with other disks. Fiddling with start sectors at 3:13 am would be a dangerous experiment; some tools out there are very powerful even for experimented users when distracted or tired. Testing the built UFD with QEMU via UBUSB is just a very convenient option. I do not see where the "overcomplexity" is.

The actual plugin will make the partition injection almost transparent to the user. Ideally, all she/he would have to do is select the BartPE source.

QUOTE
Also, this is actually avoidable:
QUOTE
QUOTE
WARNING 2: The following procedure will create BartPE on a single FAT16 partition of 2GB. All the remaining capacity will be lost under XP, even if you create additonal partitions (XP will not be able to see/access them). This should not be a problem, given the low prices of UFDs in the 4-8GB range.

By installing a "Fixed device" filter driver, like cfadisk.sys or dummydisk.sys to the XP you can get around it easily (as well as "flipping the bit" of the stick, personally advised)

I have tried the Hitachi MicroDrive Filter in my DataTraveler 2G without success: PEtoUSB simply refuses to create UFDs on drives fixed this way.

Lexar provides an utility for flipping the bit that does not work in my DataTraveler. I have not tried Bassov's filter but anticipate that PEtoUSB will still refuse to work.

Another aspect of fixing UFDs I dislike very much is the need of fiddling with the host system. In my view, you should be able to generate a BartPE UFD on-the-fly anywhere in the field, irrespective of the host system, provided that you have the CD or the source folder with you.

Experience (at least mine) tells that fixing UFDs for PEtoUSB is not as easy as it sounds. Of course, there is still the possibility that I'm doing something wrong.

Has anybody managed to use PEtoUSB 3.0.0.7 with filter drivers? Please let me know!

QUOTE
In other words, the "nice" part of PEtoUSB is not the "copying files part" which can be easily replicated, but the actual "partition/format" one, which in your method is not used.

I hope it is absolutely clear by now that this topic is about using PEtoUSB 3.0.0.7 in UFDs larger than 2GB. Partitioning/formatting above 2GB is precisely the part that natively does not work, simply because PEtoUSB 3.0.0.7 is designed for FAT16 (or am I getting something wrong?)

QUOTE
Also, and just FYI, there is a "third way", which is FAT32, that allows for filesystem bigger than 2Gb without the NTFS "induced wear".

Once again, this topic is all about PEtoUSB 3.0.0.7 which is designed for FAT16.

But no worries, jaclaz. Once the purpose of this topic has been clarified, I look forward to your continous support in building the plugin, provided that injecting the 2GB FAT16 partition works in most large UFDs. Anyhow, if you come with other ways of overcoming PEtoUSB limitations please let us know.

Many thanks for your time and advice.

All the best,
Juan
jaclaz
Ok, let's see if we can better delimit the terms of the original problem, and see together if we can get to use a common vocabulary.

The original problem:
QUOTE
Windows 2K/XP/2003 Disk Manager won't allow partitioning a device that is marked as "Removable", and as well a number of third party utility that actually use the "high-level" Windows Disk Subsystem won't do. (please note how this does not apply to DOS/Win9x/Me and does not apply entirely to Vista/2008/Win7)


  1. The "HP utility" solution (as well as, say, 90% of other apps that can actually partition a "Removable" device):
    QUOTE
    Bypass Disk Management and directly write a MBR and partition table and format a single partition on the "Removable" device.
  2. The "Filter driver" solution:
    QUOTE
    Bypass Disk Management by faking that the device is "Fixed" AND use Disk Management (or any other "normal" hard disk utility) to partition and format the device as you wish.
  3. The "Flipping the bit" solution:
    QUOTE
    Make the "Removable" device "Fixed" once and for all, and then use whatever hard disk utility you prefer.
  4. The PeToUsb solution:
    QUOTE
    Bypass Disk Management and directly write a MBR and partition table and format a single partition on the "Removable" device
    AND copy to the freshly formatted partition the BartPE files. with the limit of a FAT16 partition of 2 Gb (which is standard 2 Gb and non-standard 4 Gb)


Rather obviously most of the apps similar to #1 that came AFTER #1 and #4 have bettered their partitioning/formatting strategies and are by far more "universal" than the result of BOTH #1 and #4, have been made compatible with more filesystems and can manage bigger devices.

So, PeTO USB does these things in this order:
  1. checks if a device is "Removable" (and if it is "Fixed" refuses to partition/format it):
    QUOTE
    PeToUSB will list fixed and removable disks. On the following
    conditions:-

    It is LESS than 2GB. (It wont format FAT16 > 2Gb)
    It is NOT the current system drive.
    It is NOT the drive where PeToUSB is running from.

    If it is a USB HardDisk (eg FixedMedia) then it must have its
    partitions already defined, as PeToUSB will not partition these
    devices due to possibilty of user losing their data when the
    partitions are altered. And the first paritition starting at
    Sector 63 and being less that 2Gb in size.

    If it fails to format then check that the whole partition is
    enclosed in the first 2Gb of the physical disk. The format
    function will have problems if not.
  2. writes a MBR with a partition entry limited to 2 Gb FAT16
  3. formats the partition (optionally)
  4. performs (optionally) a file copy:
    • copies <source>\I386\SETUPLDR.BIN to root of the target and renames it to NTLDR
    • copies <source>\I386\NTDETECT.COM to root of the target
    • copies <source>\I386\ and \PROGRAMS\ directories to root of the target and renames \I386\ to \minint\
    • creates a WIMBOM.INI in the ROOT of the target with contents:

    CODE
    [Factory]
    WinBOMType=WinPE
    Reseal=No
    [WinPE]
    Restart=No
    [PnPDriverUpdate]
    [PnPDrivers]
    [NetCards]
    [UpdateInis]
    [FactoryRunOnce]
    [Branding]
    [AppPreInstall]


I need you to explicitly agree (or disagree w00t.gif pointing out where you think I have been inaccurate in the above) to the preceding summary of problem, solutions and description of PeToUsb features/behaviour, before next step.

smile.gif

jaclaz
Juan
Good evening jaclaz,

Your quotes and explanation are very interesting.

QUOTE
I need you to explicitly agree (or disagree pointing out where you think I have been inaccurate in the above) to the preceding summary of problem, solutions and description of PeToUsb features/behaviour, before next step.

Your knowledge of the problem (as you state it) and solutions is better than mine, so I trust what you are saying.

Regarding PEtoUSB, your description fits with my empirical experience (have not used PEtoUSB with USB hard disks, though).

QUOTE
The original problem:
QUOTE
Windows 2K/XP/2003 Disk Manager won't allow partitioning a device that is marked as "Removable", and as well a number of third party utility that actually use the "high-level" Windows Disk Subsystem won't do. (please note how this does not apply to DOS/Win9x/Me and does not apply entirely to Vista/2008/Win7)

If we stay on-topic, the problem this topic deals with is the creation of BartPE with PEtoUSB 3007 on UFDs larger than 2GB. As I see it, in this context the "original problem" you quote becomes relevant when you try to use the rest of the UFD via additional partitions. Personally, I'm more than happy with a 2GB-only BartPE UFD.

The first step (testing) was launched with the OP. Let's wait for some results.

The second step is building a simple plugin that enables PEtoUSB 3007 to create BartPE on large UFDs.

The plugin will use a command-line tool (USBit or similar) to "restore" an empty 2GB FAT16 partition to the UFD, and then launch PEtoUSB to copy BartPE.

The plugin should:

* Be transparent to the user (only requiring confirmation on the detected UFD and on the partitioning/formatting)
* Allow creating a BartPE UFD from a BartPE CD (either running standalone or from a drive in a host) or from a BartPE build folder in a host.
* Create UFDs in any compatible host, no previous fiddling with drives, registry, etc. required
* Create UFDs in mainstream UFDs, no previous customization required (bit flipping or similar)
* Create UFDs from any functional BartPE CD, even if the plugin is not built-in (in the latter case via an external cmd launcher)

Suggestions and comments are welcome.

Best regards,

Juan

PS: I will be off for more than a week. Will try to follow the discussion and start building the plugin as time permits. Enjoy.
jaclaz
QUOTE (Juan @ Mar 4 2010, 10:06 PM) *
Your knowledge of the problem (as you state it) and solutions is better than mine, so I trust what you are saying.
Regarding PEtoUSB, your description fits with my empirical experience (have not used PEtoUSB with USB hard disks, though).


Well, then we agree smile.gif that PeToUsb has TWO SEPARATE "main" functions:
1) Partition/Format the USB stick/device (with the mentioned limitations/size barriers) <-"difficult" part ph34r.gif (trust me)
2) Copy to it the BartPE structure and files. <-"easy" part thumbsup.gif (again believe me)

Now, try for a moment and for the sake of following me, to completely forget about PeToUSB, and it's current implementation, and the way you propose to "better" it.

Wouldn't be "natural" to have two "specialized" apps, running one after the other and capable of:
1) Partition/Format the USB stick/device (without ANY barrier, capable of formatting as FAT16, FAT32 or NTFS )
2) Copy to it the BartPE structure and files.

unsure.gif

If this approach seems to you not that bad hmm.gif, I will surprise you w00t.gif with the news that we ALREADY have them (almost):
1) RMPREPUSB
2) PEINST.CMD (present in PEBuilder 3.1.10a) <-this batch needs a few modifications

So, my suggested approach is to create a "PeInstToUSB.cmd" that uses RMPREPUSB (the command line RMPARTUSB.EXE or any other "recent" USB partitioning/formatting utility) instead of diskpart for the partitioning/formatting and the modified batch code for the copying part, or simply rewrite the code for doing the 4 (four) consecutive actions previously posted:
QUOTE
performs (optionally) a file copy:
  1. copies <source>\I386\SETUPLDR.BIN to root of the target and renames it to NTLDR
  2. copies <source>\I386\NTDETECT.COM to root of the target
  3. copies <source>\I386\ and \Programs\ directories to root of the target and renames it to \minint\
  4. creates a WIMBOM.INI in the ROOT of the target

the fourth one being probably unnecessary.
Batch snippet:
CODE
...
copy %_source%\i386\setupldr.bin %_target%\ntldr
...
copy %_source%\i386\ntdetect.com %_target%\
...
call :_copy i386 minint
...
call :_copy programs programs
...
xcopy /e /s "%_source%\%~1\*.*" "%_target%\%~2\"
...


Please note how the above was taken verbatim from PEINST.CMD

Does it sound easier than the complex workaround using a FAT16 2Gb image with the additional drawback of wasting ANY additional space on the device? unsure.gif

GUI version:
  • Run RMPREPUSB (or any other "recent" USB partitioning/formatting utility)
  • Open two Explorer windos, first on %source%\I386\ and second on target device root
  • Select and copy SETUPLDR.BIN and NTDETECT.COM from source and paste to root of the terget stick
  • Rename on target SETUPLDR.BIN to NTLDR
  • Go up one folder in source, select and copy the whole \I386\ and \Programs\ folders and paste to root of target stick
  • Rename on target \I386\ folder to \minint\


How long/difficult is the above? whistling.gif

jaclaz
Ed_P
QUOTE (jaclaz @ Mar 4 2010, 05:47 PM) *
GUI version:
  • Run RMPREPUSB (or any other "recent" USB partitioning/formatting utility)
  • Open two Explorer windos, first on %source%\I386\ and second on target device root
  • Select and copy SETUPLDR.BIN and NTDETECT.COM from source and paste to root of the terget stick
  • Rename on target SETUPLDR.BIN to NTLDR
  • Go up one folder in source, select and copy the whole \I386\ folder and paste to root of target stick
  • Rename on target \I386\ folder to \minint\

An interesting discussion.

Shouldn't the list include a mention of the PROGRAMS folder?

Do you have a link for RMPREPUSB? It sounds interesting.

If someone was able to hack PEtoUSB from FAT16 to NTFS couldn't the changed parts be identified and converted to support FAT32?

BTW When I build my USB sticks I use this approach for I386 for faster booting:
CODE
echo reBuilding MININT...
echo ..SYSTEM32 DRIVERS
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\*.* %HD%\MININT\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\ /s > nul
echo ..SYSTEM32
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\SYSTEM32\CONFIG\*.*  %HD%\MININT\SYSTEM32\CONFIG\  /s > nul
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\SYSTEM32\LANG\*.*    %HD%\MININT\SYSTEM32\LANG\    /s > nul
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\SYSTEM32\SPOOL\*.*   %HD%\MININT\SYSTEM32\SPOOL\   /s > nul
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\SYSTEM32\RAS\*.*     %HD%\MININT\SYSTEM32\RAS\     /s > nul
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\SYSTEM32\*.*         %HD%\MININT\SYSTEM32\            > nul
echo ..INF, WINSXS, FONTS
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\INF\*.*              %HD%\MININT\INF\              /s > nul
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\WINSXS\*.*           %HD%\MININT\WINSXS\           /s > nul
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\FONTS\*.*            %HD%\MININT\FONTS\            /s > nul
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\PROVISIONING\*.*     %HD%\MININT\PROVISIONING\     /s > nul
echo ..MININT
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\*.*                  %HD%\MININT\                     > nul
jaclaz
QUOTE (Ed_P @ Mar 5 2010, 02:00 AM) *
Shouldn't the list include a mention of the PROGRAMS folder?

Sure smile.gif, slip of the finger, added in original posts blush.gif

QUOTE (Ed_P @ Mar 5 2010, 02:00 AM) *
Do you have a link for RMPREPUSB? It sounds interesting.

You joking, right?
Have you EVER found me NOT having a link up my sleeve? w00t.gif

Here:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7739

More:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9460


QUOTE (Ed_P @ Mar 5 2010, 02:00 AM) *
If someone was able to hack PEtoUSB from FAT16 to NTFS couldn't the changed parts be identified and converted to support FAT32?

The whole point I was trying to make was that RMPREPUSB and more recent similar USB partitioning/formatting tools do have "better" strategies for partitioning formatting, in other words when you exit from the FAT16 "small partition" idea, you may have problems on some motherboards, and also remember the problem with the HS geometry in bootsector

QUOTE (Ed_P @ Mar 5 2010, 02:00 AM) *
BTW When I build my USB sticks I use this approach for I386 for faster booting:[code]echo reBuilding MININT...

Good. thumbsup.gif

I will reitaliate harhar.gif with this (the exact opposite):
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=23262
and probably a good autoit code base for the hypothetical GUI app.

thumbup.gif

jaclaz
Juan
@jaclaz and Ed_P

I'm very busy for the next 10 days, so just a quick reply.

A reliable PEtoUSB-alike tool for FAT32 or even NTFS is becoming a real need, just for creating plain BartPE UFDs (no grub4dos, syslinux, etc involved).

Please note that the PEtoUSB I'm referring to is the original 3.0.0.7, not to be confused with the hacked 3.0.0.8 NTFS version which tends to produce coasters on some mainstream UFDs (eg Kingston DataTraveler).

I'm wondering why the gurus have not developed such tool already. Interestingly, your discussion is leading the way to such development.

BUT we don't seem to see the forest for the trees. With all respect, please let us stay ON-TOPIC and let me deliver what I promised:

*** A simple work-around for PEtoUSB lovers like me that creates BartPE on large UFDs. Period. *******

I fully agree that the approach of "restoring" an empty FAT16 partition and then use PEtoUSB for copying BartPE is in the end inefficient. We should see this just as a dirty fix until a reliable FAT32(/NTFS?) PEtoUSB-alike tool is developed.

WHAT I PROPOSE is:

1) Move the posts discussing the best (FAT32/NTFS?) method to a new topic, so that we do not lose all the excitement this discussion is generating.

2) Keep this topic as originally formulated.

Hope you agree.

See you in few days. Enjoy!

Juan
Ed_P
QUOTE (jaclaz @ Mar 4 2010, 09:08 PM) *

Unfortunately those links are only for members of bootland.

QUOTE (jaclaz @ Mar 4 2010, 09:08 PM) *
I will reitaliate harhar.gif with this (the exact opposite):
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=23262
and probably a good autoit code base for the hypothetical GUI app.

So which approach do you think produces the quicker boot senario?
jaclaz
QUOTE (Ed_P @ Mar 5 2010, 07:40 PM) *
Unfortunately those links are only for members of bootland.

Sure, life is tough. sad.gif

You asked for a link to it, and i gave it to you.

Expecially if you are not WASP. don't have two existing members introducing you and you know not the secret bootlandian handshake, in order to become a member, you cannot use RMPREPUSB.

QUOTE (Readme.txt)
RM Utilities for bootable storage devices

©2008/2009 RM Education plc All right reserved

Disclaimer
==========

These utilities are for private use only.
Unauthorised distribution prohibited.
Available at www.boot-land.net or www.rm.com/support only.
These utilities are provided 'as is' for private use - with no support except through boot-land forum or for RM customers.
Please contact support@rm.com for other enquiries.

Thanks to 'online' for idea of using a 2nd partition to make some BIOSes boot from a UFD as a hard disk
Thanks to 'wimb', 'jaclaz', 'fuwi' and others on www.boot-land.net forum for help with final tweaks.


Now guess why I said:
QUOTE
Run RMPREPUSB (or any other "recent" USB partitioning/formatting utility)


The Author of the utility has placed some limitations on it's distribution, nothing I can do about it.

Other programs might be available.

At the worst you can use my batches, I can post a copy of them on 911CD allright, and they are freely redistributable and usable by everyone, and modifiable. smile.gif


QUOTE (Ed_P @ Mar 5 2010, 07:40 PM) *
So which approach do you think produces the quicker boot senario?

The right one, of course. wink.gif
A "pesort.txt" approach is obviously the one that has better "granularity", yours is better than plainly copying the folders, but I don't think it does much difference on USB 2.0, maybe on USB 1.0, but I don't think anyone has actually tried a comparison. hmm.gif

QUOTE (Juan @ Mar 5 2010, 12:02 PM) *
WHAT I PROPOSE is:

1) Move the posts discussing the best (FAT32/NTFS?) way to a new topic, so that we do not lose all the excitement this discussion is generating.

2) Keep this topic as originally formulated.

Hope you agree.

Why not. smile.gif

Though here you were lying whistling.gif
QUOTE (Juan @ Mar 3 2010, 01:03 AM) *
Any other feedback is also gratefully acknowledged.


I have a master in the "any other"

happy71.gif

@Ed_P
It's up to you the splitting.
Maybe it would be better if Juan posts a new thread with same contents as first post of this one, otherewise I have the feeling that at least one of the two split threads will look "orphan" unsure.gif


jaclaz
Juan
@jaclaz

QUOTE
Though here you were lying
QUOTE
QUOTE (Juan @ Mar 3 2010, 01:03 AM)
Any other feedback is also gratefully acknowledged.

How do you know that?
Are you able to read my mind?
You may be an IT guru (and I respect you for that) but probably you are not God.
Thus, you cannot know and less judge what I'm thinking.
You have no proof (nor right) to say "you were lying".

Before making such a statement, please consider the following facts first:

1) I started this topic with a clear goal (if you had time to read the title). I made it even more clear following your first reaction.

2) Your advice and suggestions are VERY interesting. Other members and me have always appreciated your openness in sharing your knowledge.

3) Unfortunately most of your suggestions and advice in this particular thread are OFF-TOPIC.

4) As originator of this topic, it is my right to take or not the suggestions and advice posted by other members. It does not mean that they are not welcome, it just means that in my opinion they are not directly relevant to the topic.

5) Have you noticed that you were all the time trying to derail this topic? I cannot and will not accuse you of doing it intentionally (can't read your mind). Moreover, it would mean that the very same Moderator of the Forum is going against its own rules.

There is also a pragmatic consideration (if you don't care about mutual respect), for your own sake: what you write may stay here for a long time (not to mention backups, old disks stored somewhere, etc.). What you write here may stay in the memory of many people for a long time. Write an insult and it will hit you back in your reputation, sooner or later.

This time, please take the above advice from this humble member.

But no worries, Jacopo. I know that I have not lied and thus should not feel the offense.

Enjoy the weekend,

Juan
jaclaz
Hey Juan, take it easy. smile.gif

Come on, it was a joke, emoticons are there exactly to convey the idea of the tone with which one is speaking writing.

I know I de-railed the topic a bit, but only because you said you would have accepted the "any other".

I supplied some of "the any other", and you said "hey you are de-railing my topic, better split it!", you didn't seem grateful as you had promised, that's all. wink.gif

No problem whatsoever, you asked for suggestions, I gave you some.

jaclaz

Steve6375
It seems I could easily incorporate the various copy functions into RMPrepUSB?

(Anyone can register on BootLand and get a login to download it :-)).

After formatting a USB drive, RMPrepUSB can optionally copy a folder to the USB drive, if say a 'PEtoUSB' check box is ticked, the file copy/rename operations outlined in this topic could be performed.

So you would just select your XP folder that contains the i386 folder (e.g. C:\myPE') and tick the 'PEtoUSB' box and then click the Prepare button.

Rather than hard code the file copy/rename operations, RMPrepUSB would call a PEtoUSB.cmd file located in the RMPrepUSB folder like this '.\PEtoUSB.cmd C:\myPE' where C:\myPE contains your source files.

That way (if you wish) you can modify the script in PEtoUSB.cmd to tailor it to your own wishes.

So any suggestions for what this file PEtoUSB.cmd should contain?
Also, what files could I legally provide with RMPrepUSB (e.g. correct version of NTLDR?)
I would simply copy winbom.ini from the RMPrepUSB .\PEtoUSB folder to the USB drive rather than create the file, that way the user could alter it if they wished.


Steve
Ed_P
Hello Steve, welcome to 911CD.

QUOTE (Steve6375 @ Mar 11 2010, 06:36 PM) *
It seems I could easily incorporate the various copy functions into RMPrepUSB?

Wow!! I like the sounds of that. thumbsup.gif

QUOTE (Steve6375 @ Mar 11 2010, 06:36 PM) *
After formatting a USB drive, RMPrepUSB can optionally copy a folder to the USB drive, if say a 'PEtoUSB' check box is ticked, the file copy/rename operations outlined in this topic could be performed.

PEtoUSB does more than copy a folder to the USB drive, it renames one of them. laugh.gif And it copies a couple of files. Basically it does this:

CODE
:BUILDDIRS
:: Build folder structure
echo.
echo Rebuilding root...
echo.
mkdir                 %HD%\MININT
mkdir                 %HD%\Programs

:BUILDROOT
:: Copy BartPE files to USB root

xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\NTDETECT.COM   %HD%\  /d /y
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\setupldr.bin      %HD%\  /d /y
ren     %HD%\setupldr.bin          NTLDR

:: Copy BartPE folders to USB root
echo.
echo reBuilding MININT...
xcopy %BartPE%\%I386%\*.*     %HD%\MININT\  /s    > nul

echo reBuilding Programs...
xcopy %BartPE%\Programs\*.*    %HD%\Programs\ /s  > nul

If you could add a PEtoUSB option to your app that would be what it should do. If you could break the I386 to MININT copy to be the series of copies I posted above that would be even better. If you made the PEtoUSB option an option to invoke a CMD script that did the above steps that you supplied that would provide the user the ability to tweak what gets copied.. My normal copy script includes a copy of an XTRA folder for example.

QUOTE (Steve6375 @ Mar 11 2010, 06:36 PM) *
Rather than hard code the file copy/rename operations, RMPrepUSB would call a PEtoUSB.cmd file located in the RMPrepUSB folder like this '.\PEtoUSB.cmd C:\myPE' where C:\myPE contains your source files.

That works. Another option could be that when the PEtoUSB option is checked RMPrepUSB must run from the PEBuilder folder to which it could then find automatically the BartPE PE folder (its a subfolder of PEBuilder).

QUOTE (Steve6375 @ Mar 11 2010, 06:36 PM) *
Also, what files could I legally provide with RMPrepUSB (e.g. correct version of NTLDR?)

Anything you own or is open source you can provide.

QUOTE (Steve6375 @ Mar 11 2010, 06:36 PM) *
(Anyone can register on BootLand and get a login to download it :-)).

If you post the file here people can download it without needing to register. wink.gif
jaclaz
Just for the record (and this is on topic wink.gif) PeToUsb also creates a WIMBOM.INI file, though I don't think it is really-really needed.

jaclaz
Ed_P
QUOTE (jaclaz @ Mar 12 2010, 01:25 PM) *
Just for the record (and this is on topic wink.gif) PeToUsb also creates a WIMBOM.INI file, though I don't think it is really-really needed.

It may indeed create that file but I've always deleted it and my sticks boot fine.
jaclaz
OT sign06.gif but FYI whistling.gif:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?...7739&st=212
QUOTE (steve6375)
NEW! Beta version 2.0.733 now includes support for BartPE (PEtoUSB type function). So just two steps to make BartPE bootable on any USB drive - 1. Use PE-Builder. 2. Use RMPrepUSB - you can have FAT16, FAT32 (no 32GB limit) or NTFS. Also added improved syslinux options and force-mba-test grubinst cmd line parameter added. Also looks for up to 26 drives. This new version is only called 'Beta' as PEtoUSB function is new.



jaclaz
Ed_P
Keep us posted on how the testing goes. thumbsup.gif

Are boot-land scripts built off of PEBuilder like UBCD4WIN and Reatogo?
jaclaz
QUOTE (Ed_P @ Mar 14 2010, 03:56 PM) *
Are boot-land scripts built off of PEBuilder like UBCD4WIN and Reatogo?


Now, this is really sign06.gif

I won't reply to such an otiose question pinch.gif, if not with a YES/NO.

Start from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinBuilder

Then READ the §@ç#ing stickies here:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showforum=40
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=19988 <- NO it has nothing to do with PEbuilder
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=20057 <- but YES, you can mix the things together

I guess you know the place. hmm.gif harhar.gif

jaclaz
Steve6375
As Jaclaz has posted, the new version of RMPrepUSB (v2.0.377) is now available on Boot-Land. It does place a winbom.ini on the USB drive but I have since found out it is not required - in fact the only files required in the root are ntdetect.com and ntldr.
Just point the folder text box to your pebuilder\bartpe folder and tick the PE to USB checkbox. After the USB drive has been formatted, it will copy all files over from the pebuilder\bartpe folder and then runs RMPrepUSBXP.cmd - this batch file copies a few files from the USB i386 folder to the USB root and renames the i386 folder to minint. It also copies the entire contents of the folder contained in the RMPrepUSB applications source folder .\PEtoUSB (which only contains winbom.ini when you first download RMPrepUSB) to the USB drive. So if you want to, you can put any XTRA files into this folder. You can also edit the RMPrepUSBXP.cmd file to change it's actions. This means you can tailor it to suit your own purposes (you could use it for **any** action that you wanted to run after the file copy had completed - even install grub or run syslinux!). If you want it to just call another cmd file then just replace the script with your call and path it to your local folder
I have tested this using PE-Builder 3110a and an OEM XP Pro SP2 CD - no extra files were used from anywhere else - it seems to boot on an Asus EeePC and a Compal notebook.
Post any feedback to Boot-Land if poss. please in the Project Forge - RMPrepUSB topic.
Ed_P
@Steve6375

Any particular reason why a copy of your file can't be posted here, where PEBuilder exists, and no additional signup is required to download it?
Steve6375
QUOTE (Ed_P @ Mar 15 2010, 03:52 AM) *
Any particular reason why a copy of your file can't be posted here, where PEBuilder exists, and no additional signup is required to download it?

I would rather have the download just in one place so that I can update it in just one place if I release a new version.
If/when it goes to a release state I would be happy to post it here too.
I have no website of my own to act as a central source sad.gif
jaclaz
QUOTE (Steve6375 @ Mar 15 2010, 01:26 PM) *
I would rather have the download just in one place so that I can update it in just one place if I release a new version.
If/when it goes to a release state I would be happy to post it here too.
I have no website of my own to act as a central source sad.gif

Well, this could be solved smile.gif, I am pretty sure that Nuno will gladly give you something like steve6375.winbuilder.net or rmprepusb.winbuilder.net, or something you may like.

Right now boot-land/winbuilder.net appears like down, yet another glitch in the matrix:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=22416
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...2416&st=105

jaclaz
Juan
Updated 06 April 2010

Dear all,

As promised in the first post, an extension for enabling PeToUSB 3.0.0.7 in UFDs of any size is now available in two versions: plugin and standalone. PeToUSB XS creates a 2GB FAT16 partition on the target UFD, and then opens PeToUSB 3.0.0.7 to create the BartPE UFD in the usual way.

PeToUSB XS Plugin

This plugin allows running PeToUSB from BartPe. Very convenient for generating BartPE UFDs in any computer.

Download the plugin and expand the zip file to the PEbuilder folder (at the same level pebuilder.exe is).

The plugin for PeToUSB XS will be copied to a new folder <PeToUSBxs> under <plugin>. In addition, the command PeToUSBxs.cmd will be copied to the PEbuilder folder. Next time you build BartPE, PeToUSB XS will be added automatically.

The PeToUSB XS plugin can be used to create BartPE UFDs in a number of ways:

a) From BartPE running from a CD. Press System / PeToUSB XS in the Nu2Menu.

b) From a BartPE CD in a Windows XP host. Run PeToUSBxs.cmd from the CD root.

c) From the PEbuilder folder in the XP host. Run PeToUSBxs.cmd (located at the same level as pebuilder.exe).

d) From a BartPE UFD. Handy for creating a second BartPE UFD. Before starting PeToUSB XS, make a copy of the <minint> folder in the source UFD (~170MB of space required) and rename the copy to <i386>. After creating the new UFD, just delete <i386>. Since v010.04, PeToUSB XS has its own routine for copying BartPE from one UFD to another.

Start PeToUSB XS from your favorite source as described above and follow the instructions.

PeToUSB XS Standalone

Download PeToUSB XS standalone and unpack PeToUSBxs.exe.

PeToUSBxs.exe runs from anywhere in Windows XP or BartPE, including:

a) Windows XP hosts

b) BartPE CDs

c) BartPE UFDs (handy for creating a second BartPE UFD; see below*).

Start PeToUSBxs.exe and follow the instructions.

(*) When running PeToUSB XS from a BartPE UFD, proceed as follows:

1) Make a copy of the <minint> folder in the source UFD (~170MB of space required) and rename the copy to <i386>.
2) Start PeToUSBxs.exe and follow the instructions.
3) After creating the new UFD, delete <i386>.

Note: Since v010.04, PeToUSB XS has its own routine for copying BartPE from one UFD to another.

Good luck,
Juan

PS: Congratulations to Steve6375, and his advisors jaclaz and Ed_P, on the new RMPrepUSB with PeToUSB function.
It has been an unexpected but valuable result of this topic.
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