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shallowbreath
I'm trying to restore vista to a hp laptop for a friend; the hard drive is damaged. I've successfully transferred the recovery partition from the old drive to the new, and have the factory image on an external HD.

I've been using Acronis 10 to do these operations; however because of an error/bug involving the pagefile I can't directly copy the primary partition from disk to disk and instead must back up and restore as a 2-step process. This also has the unfortunate effect of placing the restored files in C:\drive (E)\* instead of the root. I believe if I can move those files up one level I'd be able to boot into HP system restore; I get 'ntldr is missing' when attempting to boot.

The computer's owner has no vista CD or recovery disks made. Is it possible to build a bootable image from the recovery partition in order to make the filesystem corrections I need, or is there an easier method to apply the restore image to the primary partition? I don't know what software is required to utilize the factory image at boot.

Any help would be appreciated.
jaclaz
Besides the recovery partition could you recover the hard disk MBR? (with the original HP MBR)

I cannot make head or tail of this w00t.gif:
QUOTE
I've been using Acronis 10 to do these operations; however because of an error/bug involving the pagefile I can't directly copy the primary partition from disk to disk and instead must back up and restore as a 2-step process. This also has the unfortunate effect of placing the restored files in C:\drive (E)\* instead of the root. I believe if I can move those files up one level I'd be able to boot into HP system restore; I get 'ntldr is missing' when attempting to boot.

You have either imaged the partition OR the files in it.


QUOTE
The computer's owner has no vista CD or recovery disks made. Is it possible to build a bootable image from the recovery partition in order to make the filesystem corrections I need, or is there an easier method to apply the restore image to the primary partition? I don't know what software is required to utilize the factory image at boot.

I am not sure about WHAT you are trying to do. hmm.gif



WHAT is the goal you have in mind?
WHAT do you mean by defective?
A defective hard disk should be imaged FULLY and UNCONDITIONALLY "as is" (forensical like or dd-like).
As well a defective filesystem should first be imaged and then attempted to be fixed "locally".

Let's start again, OK? smile.gif

Do you want to replace the internal hard disk of the laptop?
Do you want to repair the filesystem on the main partition of the laptop?
Do you want to restore the hard disk through the recovery partition "factory like"?
Do you want to do the above on the newly installed harddisk?

unsure.gif

jaclaz
shallowbreath
I apologise for being unclear. My experience with damaged hard drives is limited, and I'm extremely hampered by my lack of recovery disks.

QUOTE
1.WHAT is the goal you have in mind?
2.WHAT do you mean by defective?
3.A defective hard disk should be imaged FULLY and UNCONDITIONALLY "as is" (forensical like or dd-like).
4.As well a defective filesystem should first be imaged and then attempted to be fixed "locally".


1. I want to copy the old drive to the new drive, repair any filesystem errors that may be present, and hurl the old drive out the window.

2. The old drive has bad sectors and runs very slowly ahd hangs constantly. It also fails HP's bios-based hard drive test. (I don't think I said it was defective?) chkdsk /r puts out an incredible amount of text in its repairs.

3. Acronis won't allow me to image the whole drive because a software bug related to the pagefile. I don't know of any other bootable programs that can accomplish this.

4. I think this would be easiest to do if I was able to restore the factory image on the new hard drive. I could use some tips here.

QUOTE
5. Do you want to replace the internal hard disk of the laptop?
6. Do you want to repair the filesystem on the main partition of the laptop?
7. Do you want to restore the hard disk through the recovery partition "factory like"?
8. Do you want to do the above on the newly installed harddisk?


5. Yes, I want to replace the hard disk. The disk has bad sectors and I believe is the culprit for extremely slow performance.

6. The disk has a lot of programs that would be a pain to reinstall, so repairing the filesystem would be a good plan. I'd want to copy the repaired drive image to the new drive if it worked.

7. If I could run the recovery process on the new hard drive, I believe i'd be in a better position to work on the filesystem of the old drive, and have a good fallback point if the filesystem isn't repairable. I have a driveXML image of the damaged drive that should have most of the user's data intact. Acronis has a bug in which any pagefile on the source disk that is not of a system managed size causes the full disk imaging process to fail.

8. Yes. I want to recycle the old hard drive for all the trouble its given me.

I believe the recovery partition is okay. I partitioned the new drive exactly like the old drive, and copied the recovery partition to it. I tried to do the same with the main partition's files (pretty much just \Windows), but acronis placed the files in a subfolder. I can't run the recovery process with the files in this location ("ntldr is missing"). Without a vista CD, I can't use UBCD or BartPE to build a PE and move those restored files to the root folder, or boot into the vista CD's command prompt. If this can be done with just a vista CD, i'll see if I can obtain one.

What I was trying to ask was if I can create a preinstalled environment from the factory image so I can boot from a USB and move the restored files. Or, if HP uses a specific software suite to work with their factory images (norton Ghost for one) I could restore the factory image to the new hard drive.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out. I hope this is clearer.
jaclaz
Yep, now it is better. smile.gif

The whole point that I fail to understand is the procedure, this won't work:
QUOTE
I believe the recovery partition is okay. I partitioned the new drive exactly like the old drive, and copied the recovery partition to it.

As said you need the original MBR in order to access the Recovery partition.

How is your setup (I mean hardware you have available)?

The general idea (recommended theory of operation) is:
  • take the old drive out of the notebook
  • connect it (as an example with a USB adapter) to another KNOWN to be working PC
  • image it "forensically" on some spare disk or space
  • stop fiddlingwith the dying hd
  • from the image get the files needed to rebuild on the new disk


If you have a driveimageXML image you have a "partition image" WITHOUT the MBR.
But if you still have the drive you can make a copy of it (the sooner you make it, the better)
Then you have an image of the Recovery partition? Taken with What/How?

Can you somehow have the TWO (old and new) drives connected together to a bootable system?


Theory of operation #2:
  • Simply "dd" directly from OLD to new


Acronis is NOT suitable for working on problematic drives, you need something more "direct" and less "prone to errors/picky/attempting to automagically do whatever it see fits instead of doing what you tell it to do".

What kind of bootable external media do you have available (like a BartPE, a "normal" WinPE 1.x or 2.x, Linux, etc.) and CD/DVD or USB stick or what?

jaclaz
shallowbreath
I don't have a SATA <-> USB adapter. Are these adapters commonly available? I have a 4gb flash drive I've done UBUSB/BartPE on before when I had a corrupted RAID driver on another machine. Can I use the DXML image to get the drivers I'd need?

I have 2 HD slots on the laptop and new is hooked up in the master position, old as slave (the bios doesn't even pretend to be able to boot the 2nd drive..). I have a 320gb usb hdd, but the drives i'm working with are 500gb. If I can boot it from USB, I'll have both drives connected to a bootable system.

I don't have a system with more than 3 SATA slots.

What do I need to do in order to dd the drives? I'm very unfamiliar with this process.

What would you recommend for making an image of the dying drive? Would it be the same size as the capacity of the HDD, or only the used space? Acronis had a 'sector-by-sector' option but I simply don't have the storage for it. The only drive I have that's large enough to fit the old drive is the new drive.

thanks again!

EDIT: Totally going to buy an adaptor.. what should I use to create the image, and how much space do I need?
jaclaz
Yes, they are fairly common, and they are pretty cheap too, on e-bay you can find them for a few bucks, maybe 10~15 in a shop.
El-cheapo (example):
http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT


But if you have the laptop to which you can connect both disks you are fine.
The BIG variable is that you won't have a "saved" image, so if anything goes foobar, you have no way back. ph34r.gif

Plan of action:
  • connect "original hard disk" as second
  • connect "new hard disk" as master
  • boot from either USB or CD/DVD drive, and then use the whatever you booted to duplicate just the MBR and Recovery partition from old drive to new drive
  • boot from new drive's recovery partition
  • create recovery media (just in case)
  • boot again from USB or CD/DVD and duplicate the "main partition" from Old to New
  • try booting the New and depending on which problems are there you can try fixing them "online" OR
  • use the USB/CD to do the fixes



Now for the whatever to boot from CD, since you seem like you have not a PE of some kind nor probably the sources to build one, these are possibilities:
http://ping.windowsdream.com/
http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/
http://www.drfreeware.org/

jaclaz
mbarnes
Hi shallowbreath

You need to check at the HP website for details about the recovery partition, what it does and how to access it

For example on most Sony Vaio laptops pressing F10 at bootup boots the recovery partition which launches a Windows PE environment
which can partition and or format then copy files to C: to restore to as delivered state or just over write operating system files but leave any data intact

As Jaclaz said you only need to copy the partition cylinder + recovery partition to new hard disk then return this hard disk to the HP laptop and boot to diagnostic recovery partition.

There is no need to try and copy the damaged C: partition unless you are trying to recovering data

The last time I did this it was on a desktop and I used Powerquest Drive Image. (you have to buy this and it is only suitable for O/S upto XP)

The hard disk manufacturer for the new disk probably has a free disk duplication program available for download

I am not clear if the old drive uses ATA or SATA interface
2.5" and 3.5" SATA drives use the same power & data connecter but 2.5" & 3.5" ATA drives use different connecters
so for SATA drives you can use a desktop PC if it supports 3 SATA drives

best of luck (fortunately its not your PC)


regards
Mike Barnes
rdsok
.... or visit HP's website, find out the cost of a set of Recovery disks for the specific make/model of the system and order them. It's been a long time since I've looked up the cost on these, but then they were right around $20 or so if I am remembering correctly....
shallowbreath
Thanks for the advice so far guys. I bought a cable so I'll be creating a backup tonight.

I'll be sure to check out those links later, jaclaz (i'm at work). Stupid question: If I made a winXP-based PE with the proper drivers, would I be able to copy the MBR and recovery partition? I've only used an XP-based PE to fix an XP-based computer before.

My laptop is (thankfully) XP, so I would be interested in making an image with that software mbarnes. Will the image be suitably compressed? I haven't used that software before. If that program can both backup the whole drive image and backup the mbr / recovery partition, it seems I can get around using a PE. Or, I could just clone the drive and see about fixing any remaining filesystem errors. About that program - would it be possible to backup the whole drive and only restore the MBR / recovery partition?

rdsok, that would be a great plan but I really need to get this done and out soon.
jaclaz
QUOTE (shallowbreath @ Jul 30 2010, 04:38 PM) *
Stupid question: If I made a winXP-based PE with the proper drivers, would I be able to copy the MBR and recovery partition? I've only used an XP-based PE to fix an XP-based computer before.

Not at all stupid. smile.gif

Sure you can, if you have an XP source available easiest would be to build an UBCD4WIN:
http://www.ubcd4win.com/
as it already contains:
http://www.ubcd4win.com/contents.htm
a number of suitable tools (not all the ones I would personally use, but anyway enough for what you have to do).

jaclaz
shallowbreath
QUOTE (jaclaz @ Jul 30 2010, 12:09 PM) *
as it already contains a number of suitable tools (not all the ones I would personally use, but anyway enough for what you have to do).


just so I'm clear - the programs on that suite would be fine for my purposes? Or, is there a good program you could recommend to do it in a few steps using my laptop and cable:

attach old drive, create image
detach old drive, attach new drive
write image to new drive, boot, see what happens
rdsok
QUOTE (shallowbreath @ Jul 30 2010, 09:38 AM) *
rdsok, that would be a great plan but I really need to get this done and out soon.


The ship time is usually not very long... and what about some future issue or if the methods you are trying end up failing... In either case, your friend should have a backup plan. So I'm not saying to just use that one suggestion... but I wouldn't ignore it either.
jaclaz
QUOTE (shallowbreath @ Jul 30 2010, 08:47 PM) *
just so I'm clear - the programs on that suite would be fine for my purposes? Or, is there a good program you could recommend to do it in a few steps using my laptop and cable:

attach old drive, create image
detach old drive, attach new drive
write image to new drive, boot, see what happens


Yep, selfimage and rawcopy should do allright.

I would personally use dsfi/dsfo, part of the dsfok toolkit:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nulifetv/freezip/freeware/
But that's because of several reasons:
  1. I am a dinosaur survived to the GUI advent
  2. they give more control
  3. I know how to use 'em

which may not apply to you wink.gif.

Or Clonedisk:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8480
http://erwan.l.free.fr/clonedisk/body.html

Or Odin:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5871
http://sourceforge.net/projects/odin-win/

As I know how they were developed and by whom, but if you are going for a direct disk to disk clone, RawCopy will do excellently thumbsup.gif .
http://www.roadkil.net/
http://www.roadkil.net/program.php/P22/Raw%20Copy

jaclaz
Ben_Mott
Hello again,
if you are going to do this a lot and
if you are using XP ghost.exe(7.5, 8) never lets you down , do a disk to image that way you copy MBR of original disk
not partion to image .
if you got Vista or win7 ghost32.exe (11-14)
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl


and if any boot prob use windows vista/7 PE to do a start up repair.
Acronis true image is good software for normal use but some times with a bad HDD it throws up and spoils the party.
HP uses PCangleLE
http://www.pcangelle.com/
but for us Ghost is much better as it is not restricted by Microsoft checks and bounds.


Regards Ben
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=14127
jaclaz
Ben Mott,
should you have missed it, the previously suggested software is all Freeware, GHOST, last time I checked, was a Commercial one, by Symantec, as well as PCangelLE, there are a few tens of such Commercial softwares, including the mentioned Acronis.

They may be "not restricted by Microsoft checks and bounds." but they are most probably "restricted by their respective company checks and bounds".

jaclaz
Ben_Mott
hello jaclaz,
if the guy got the Pcanlele recovery partition it means that he already got the software without knowing it.
it used to be the same with ghost.exe it always used to live on that recovery partition, that what starts it off .
the customer had the software and all they needed to do is to copy it to another medium from the ram disk.
Regards Ben
PS found this useful info:
==============================
Manual PC Angel System Recovery


Want to recover a machine which has a “PC Angel” recovery partition, but the MBR is hosed so you

can’t recover with “F10? like the manual states?

Boot the system with KNOPPIX (or any other recovery disk with a partition editor)(or partedmagic

boot CD),
http://partedmagic.com/download.html

then use fdisk or parted magic to change the partition with ID 12 (“Compaq Diagnostics”) to ID 7 (“NTFS”)

and mark it bootable. Then reboot and voila, recovery boots.

After recovering, you’ll have to change the partition table back to how it was before, because the

recovery software will not fix this for you. However, it will fix the MBR so recovering with F10

will be functional again after this.
=================================

I did not understand the bit about ID 12 and ID 7 I think he means unhide partition and then flag it as boot(active)

regards Ben
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