* this post has been rescinded due to non-participation

ok, let's try a different approach ......

I'd be really grateful if someone could explain how BartPE uses RAM -

* how is RAM used during boot -
is it different depending on how/where BartPE is booted from -- cd / hdd / usb ?

* when BartPE runs, what runs from RAM, and what runs from the cd / hdd / usb ?
or, do all apps/services run from the same place?

* how does this relate to creating a RAM disk/drive & making BartPE run from that?
------ is this in addition to or different from the system RAM that BartPE boots from?

* is creating/using/running from a RAM disk ALWAYS better?

what if I'm booting from a trimmed BartPE on its own partition just to create or restore images -
it boots in 25 seconds, Drive Snapshot creates or restores the image in average 3 minutes -
will I get anything extra from BartPE running this function in a RAM disk?

...... this is what I meant in my original post by ..... when is RAM not RAM?

because it seems to me that there are different meanings & contexts for "RAM"

--- Thanks for your time, really! ---

hi

when u boot from cd .. it reads everything ,all files from cd so it requires the cd to work even after the boot is completed
u cannot just remove ur cd and use ur barpe

in short the device from which u booted should always be there and will be in use

in ram booting a real device like hdd,usb or cd is used in which the bartpe image is stores in .img or sdi format which is then copied to ram in a virtual disk

booting from ram means an X amount of ur actual ram is converted into a disk by special drivers and programs
that means that the computer is made to think that there is one more device i.e a disk which is actually a part of ram.

next when u have this ram disk ready ,every think means the whole bartpe is copied in that ramdisk i.e in ur ram

next the loader is fired from ur ramdisk which starts ur bartpe but this time from the ramdisk.

so now u can remove or use the device completely from where u loaded this bartpe to ram

best regards

I'm not expert but let me try to answer some of your questions.


No, if the same BartPE files are used in each media. But there is another "from", the BartPE boot media can include RAM in addition to cd / hdd / usb. If the BartPE files are in an image format such as a CD image ISO file, then before BartPE can execute the image must be loaded to RAM before BartPE can be booted. And the size of the image residing in the system's RAM reduces the amount of RAM available to run BartPE.


BartPE the OS on a cd / hdd/ usb runs totally in RAM. BartPE was designed to run from a CD, which is a non-writable media, however some BartPE apps/plugins require a writable media in order to run, so to satisfy that requirement BartPE includes a plugin which allows BartPE to have a RAMDISK of up to 96MB, So when BartPE is running, and using RAM for it's OS it also has RAM allocated for the RAMDISK. When a plugin is executed it runs in RAM also and if it requires writable media then it is copied to the RAMDISK before being executed.

Suppose you have a BartPE system that occupies 200 MB of file space. And suppose the OS part requires 125MB to run and the system is configured to have a 96MB RAMDISK. The RAM requirements to run this BartPE system from a cd / hd /usb would be 125 + 96 => 221MB.

Now suppose you have the above BartPE system on a USB stick and it's to be run on a system with a single USB port and you have a USB hd that needs to be used to backup all the system's documents before you debug it. To free up the USB port instead of having the BartPE files on the USB stick you could have the BartPE files in an ISO image and have just that on the USB stick. The USB stick could then be configured to boot grldr which in turn could load the ISO file to RAM and then boot BartPE from there. So your RAM requirements for this machine would be 200MB for the ISO image + 125MB to run the BartPE system + 96MB for the BartPE RAMDRIVE for a total of 421MB.


No! In the examples above one runs on a system with 256MB of RAM, the other requires 512MB of RAM.


I doubt it but I don't use Drive Snapshot so I can't say for certain. It would depend on how much RAM the machine has and how much Drive Snapshot uses when it does it's thing. If your machine has 2GB and Drive Snapshort uses a max of 512MB then the answer would be none.


RAM is RAM, how much there is, how it is used and how much is used are the significant questions. Hopefully this answers some of your questions.

Very great Thanks to Rajesh 2010 & Ed_P for your helpful responses!

From studying other forum posts, I do understand how some people have the need to remove the device used to initially boot BPE,
in order to use that port for other tasks. R.2010 - your "simplified" explanation is easy for me to understand

Ed_P, really appreciate you taking it step-by-step with your explanation of the process -
now I have a much better idea of how the Process works,
plus,
it helps me begin to understand more of the posts I've been studying,
and also helps me understand whether or not any particular method is best for my own needs.

I personally like to understand what ALL the options are,
yet sometimes multiple options are confusing -
especially when a person (me) is still trying to lay a solid foundation.

Also, these forums are historical records of various methods that have been developed,
but due to the format of forums/bbs, it's not always clear as to where each method stands in RELATIONSHIP to others -
like - which is best, at what time, & for what purpose(s)?

but I know it's not practical to put "Stickies" on everything, either!

*******************************************



now I have a place to (hopefully) ask better questions -
is 96 MB the current upper limit or default as set forth in ramdisk.inf ?

and given the current pebuilder3110a - what RAM-related plugins actually work successfully with it ? -
because I've studied some threads that mention former methods/plugins that apparently no longer work.

Please correct this : my understanding is that you can't just edit ramdisk.inf with a greater value, and make it work -
there must be other files and .inf edits included to make everything "see" and "utilize" more RAM -

[ or can you? if so, how exactly to do that? ]

if this is so, what are these other/additional things? (Please point me to the best threads/posts if this is already clearly spelled out)

I did try AutoRamResizer plugin a few days ago - and just before the final BPE screen stabilizes,
it quickly shows a progress bar & says something about how much RAM has been allocated -
but it was one of those experiments where I didn't really understand what I was doing,
or how to evaluate what was happening, so I rebuilt BPE & unchecked that plugin.

HOW do I evaluate/measure how much RAM is being used - what tools, & HOW to interpret them?

Thank You for helping me understand, & to be able to ask better, more useful questions

I believe 32MB is the default value and 96MB is the upper limit by design of ramdisk.sys.


The one distributed with PEBuilder works, a purchased version of the one distributed with PEBuilder works, I believe one from a different version of Windows works and the one I use IMDISK works.


Read the ramdisk plugin's htm file.


I believe the A43 explorer app displays disk size and free space, use it to look at the B: drive's usage.

FWIW I believe my default RAMDISK size is 48MB which is fine for running FireFox and DriveImage XML but inadequate for running the AV and AM apps I use. For those apps I need to expand my RAMDISK to 128MB or more, the advantage of using IMDISK, and machines with 512MB of RAM or more.

very good - I'll take a few days now to research these posts here, especially about ImDisk,
glad to know that's what you use & recommend, & that hopefully you can give some guidance as I go,
but I know there's been a ton posted about it here as I just did a search, so ....... I'm stoked

Best!

I'd actually suggest you start with the basics instead. Actually read up on what RAM is ( often refered to as DRAM but there are now many other types ). Then take the next step and read about what ram drives and swap files are etc. You probably should also include a small course on the various types of storage media ( hard drives, CD/DVD drives also known as optical drives, USB drives )... including a little bit perhaps on partitions that these media contain.

With a basis on that type of info, you can apply what you learn to not only Windows, a PE OS, Linux and any other OS including even the various cell phone OS's that exist. The more you know about the underlying technology, the more you will actually understand how all OS's utilize memory. I'm not saying become an expert in those areas... just get a basic understanding. What you learn will also apply to a PE enviroment.

Search on places such as Wikipedia for those types of subjects ... you'll find a wealth of info that you can bring to what you are trying to learn here as well.

I never said I recommend it I said I use it and that it meets my needs for a RAMDISK larger than 96MB. If you have no need for a RAMDISK larger than 96MB than you have no need for IMDISK.

If however you do have a need for a large RAMDISK and have machines with sufficient RAM to support it then you can use the IMDISK plugin found here: http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=20203

searched for previous discussion but didn't locate anything --->

ok, I see the default listed in ramdisk.inf as 32 MB,
but if the actual limit is 96 MB, why is 128 mb even listed?

was it planned or thought that the 128 MB capability would soon be actualized?

Possibly, but it never happened TTBOMK.

come on small mistakes happens
afterall bart created pebuilder a boon to us

I suspect it is leftover from the older versions of the ramdisk plugin, from before the limit was imposed...

good point



true that!

I've built successful UBCD4Wins, etc, and been told that some of these other boot discs were :
"BartPE on STEROIDS"

& that's fine & all, but what if a person doesn't WANT or NEED bPE on steroids?

so at the moment, bPE is very much alive & well for both my needs,
but more importantly - as an I.T. hobbyist, it's teaching me more skills & increasing my understanding of many things,
so I agree it's a super-boon, for which I'm super-grateful

i totally agree, and that's my strategy -

i've been study Mark Russinovich/David Solomon's materials over & over again to increase the knowing,
& i use Process.Explorer to watch & learn what the system is doing.

Don't beat around the bush guys share your knowledge:

1. Redistributable Ramdisk That Allows 512mb ?
2. Ramdrive v 5.3.1.5, For those of us who bought it
3. RRamdisk, Ramdisk Driver for win2k/xp/2k3

hey i hav started a new thread on pe image boot from ram....
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=24100